Looking for a guide to explore the changes of life

[Ingen]

Threw sense feels like a body sensation

Could you explain this, before I answer. I don't understand

[adam_brunt]

The sense feels like a body sensation.

Sorry I'm using the tapatalk app, which is convenient for me, but what I type has small errors sometimes.

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[Ingen]

Threw sense feels like a body sensation that can be felt in different areas of the body or even the entire body sometimes. Sometimes the sense is behind the eyes.

Ok. There are body sensations.

Usually the sense is stronger after thoughts come up. Thoughts can appear without that sense present.

= there are body sensations, and there are thoughts.

Sometimes it seems there is a sense present that wants something even if I am simultaneously aware that I shouldn't want that thing.

"I shouldn't want that thing" is just another thought.

But, saying that a sense that is not permanent wants something just sounds strange to stay.

"Wanting something" means thinking about something desirable that isn't present right now, right?

Can a sense, or a sensation, or a thought – be it permanent or not – think?

[adam_brunt]

Sense, sensation, and thought are not permanent. The space that receives them is what is there before they happen. There is a background awareness that exists before those temporary moments of experience occur.

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[adam_brunt]

The sensations and thoughts are not thinking they just arise. That's how it feels to me

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[Ingen]

The space that receives them is what is there before they happen. There is a background awareness that exists before those temporary moments of experience occur.

"A space that receives sensations and thoughts" sounds spiritual, and kind of like an imaginary container!
Is ithis something you have read, or do you really notice "a background awareness" between moments of experience?

Don't answer quickly. Look inside and find out if there is something BUT experience.

[adam_brunt]

The space I refer to feels like a background awareness. I can see in that space the capacity for thoughts to appear. When I don't pay attention to what that space is. It's just there and I can't put a label on it. It's the noticing that brings in the label.

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[adam_brunt]

Between moments of awareness I don't know what is there really. I can try and label it, but I don't think the label is really what it is. I'm trying to point out what I feel with words, which are limited.

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[Bill]

Hi Adam.
Ingen asked if I would come and say a few words to see if we can get this pointing going...

Here's what I'm seeing.
She is asking you specific questions about 'you' and what's up with you and your experience.
You are answering like you are in the third party... and with a lot of explaining and analyzation.
This is not what we're after here... Im being honest with you.
This is so much simpler than you can imagine. Its actually part of why its so difficult.
Its simply seeing things (Life) as it is. Period.

We only want you to see what's true for you in your experience.
We want you to look too. Looking is the key to making this thing happen.
No look... no see thru self. So looking is very important.
We need to know how you are feeling and thinking... in your words.. not spiritual jargon stuff
but the everyday words you would use if you were talking with a friend.
Please don't take offense to this.. we really want you to see this thing.
Its not hard, but takes the ability to keep after it AND be guidable.

Here's a great 5 min Youtube on looking.
watch it a few times today and tomorrow... 'Get' what he's talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyNwhK2Ur1c

Between moments of awareness I don't know what is there really. I can try and label it, but I don't think the label is really what it is. I'm trying to point out what I feel with words, which are limited. ‘

Between moments of awareness, where is what it is that notices?
how about if there was more of what you call awareness?
How about more noticing?
Maybe not the sort of awareness you ‘think’ it should be, but something is here right? what is here, REALLY HERE?

Could it simply be an awareness of 'thoughts' that are just streaming by?


and then things happen... you're driving your car in that background space and just cruising by, sunny afternoon, not a cloud in sight till all of a sudden a child runs in front of your car chasing a ball. What happens to that spacy awareness then? Won't your foot jam those breaks to save that child's life even though you had not a speck of a thought about it?
Is there a you in awareness?

theres a bit here.. take your time with it.. let it sink in. :)

[adam_brunt]

Thanks Bill. I guess it felt like I was giving my personal account from my experience. Thankfully you both are very good at seeing what is there in my words. I will take some time to watch the video reread the conversation in this thread and let it sink in. I take no offense and appreciate the honesty. I feel so grateful for the time you both have shared with me. Have a great day/night!

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[Bill]

Hey Adam,

Hows things going? :)
Ever get a chance to see the video on Looking? It's worth seeing. I highly recommend it.
It goes over this 'Looking' term we use, and gives some nice examples.

A good short exercise for you to do to help you get a real world feel for Looking,
would be to take any small task or activity you do and really LOOK at it and break
it down and watch what happens.... try to put it into words exactly what you see.
Give a brief write up of what goes on.
We want to move our focus down from the purely thinking, to the more physical
level of sight and all the other senses.

Bill

[adam_brunt]

You are answering like you are in the third party... and with a lot of explaining and analyzation.
This is not what we're after here... Im being honest with you.

I think I will stick with working with this process using my laptop. I was using an app to access the forum and my words and expressions were not really that great for the level of personal experience that needs to be communicated with guides. I have spent a lot of my free time looking back over my old conversations on this forum and with John Wheeler from years ago. I also watched the video on Looking that you linked to. It is very good. As I watched it my attention just relaxed and I stopped trying to analyze what was being said. I felt like I was very open and just listened in a purely connected way. I watched it few times more and felt an energized open listening just happening without the sense of a narrowing thought that "I was listening" slipping in very often at all. It felt clear to have this explained to me. I have done a lot of looking before and have had some very strong senses of my whole identity just falling off for extended periods of time. It has been a while since I have had to try and type it all out in a narrative way like is done with this forum.

I read through and followed closely the dialogue in the archives that katica started with bodhi yesterday and today. I have read many of these types of exchanges before, but this one is very fresh with me still. It was really helpful to see the type of describing she was doing and just to feel the process through the words. I felt so connected to her process. It feels so normal and energizing to reconnect with that kind of honesty and looking.

I have spent time at work and around home just looking while doing is happening. There are the tasks of my day that I do to get ready to leave for work and to help my wife and son that I do very often. I see how important it is to get immersed with this process of looking at daily activity and let the momentum build from continued practice. I would sort of ask my self if there really is an I doing and planning everything I do each day and then say that I will just watch and see what happens if I just start doing everything. Thoughts would come up about how well I may be doing something and I would just look at the thought without judgement. That alone sort of froze it and slowed its effects, dropping away easily. Everything I did I would just observe(internally) and listen, feel, talk, see(externally) what was happening without labeling.

I could see that all this activity was just happening. That at some point skills were developed, learned, and refined, but I did not do any of that. There was processing of information for that all to take place that I could have never done. All that skill building and its expression happens before thinking is involved.

For example, I take a cut apple with almond butter in my lunch. I know that I will make this part of my lunch and I can just start doing the steps without saying, or thinking, each step and skill required to perform the completed task. Though,when I choose the apple it does sort of feel like there is preference taking place in my head while looking at each apple. But, this more of a feeling that there was preference rather than any sort of mental dialogue performed.

The apple is grabbed with my right hand. WHy? Because I am right handed I guess. I didn't think in order to grab the apple, it just happened. And then as I continue the task and begin to cut it. There is awareness that I must be careful, but it is sensation only. No thoughts or words. The sensation of safety occurs quickly like it has many many times before. During the whole task I am just aware of each movement while slicing. I see its shape and I know that this is the apple I am cutting. It feels like the whole movement has all been decided before and I know what will probably happen, but really it is always new each time I do this. I taste one of the slices. It is delicious. I feel thankful for such good food in my home. I feel thankful for my family.

I have felt more relaxed in my body just after doing this simple looking throughout the day at home and work. I feel my attention more focused on looking at this I process and just simply seeing things happen. I see how important this is to do. There has to be focus and energy available to look and really notice what is happening through sensation.

I have been less snagged by thoughts and criticism from myself or by me towards outwards occurrences. I watch activity take place and just think how bizarre the whole spectrum of human activity is. I will be at work just listening, or looking outward at the environment, gently breathing into my body and it will hit completely me that the body is functioning without me. I know this fact before it happens, but it is a stronger body feeling of understanding.

Even when it seems like I must chosen to come to work each day, in these moments later on in the day I will see that it just happened actually. I drove just fine without trying to remember how to drive. The right amount of brakes and gas happened spontaneously. The attention from this understanding of spontaneous action will spread through my body and sometimes I will feel it more, but sometimes it just drops off from sensation. Sometimes I dropped out of sensation as a participant in these moments and it feels like I was never here.

[Bill]

Yes the laptop is much better Adam.... much more detailed response.
The frequency of your posting is less important than the content, for sure.

I will respond to your post in a while... I saw some things I want to point out to you.
First I wanted to give you some exercises on looking for the self we've found helpful

As we go through this, I'd like you to look, every time it comes to you.. for a real self.
Not obsessively.. or constantly... just every time it might pop in your head.

So how do we do this? Well, not with a furrowed brow type of looking... just a casual easy glance.

There's a couple of different questions you can ask.

You could just come to a stop, and look.

Is there a self? Can I find one right now?

or answer this question

There is no self. Is it true? Look.

or read this little koan we have:

Its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,...
Once you see that I is just a thought
you see that thought itself does not think
and It clicks!
Its very very simple.

Just whenever the thought of this pops in your head.... try doing one of these
You have to look to do them.. they are not really answerable by thinking about them.

[Ingen]

Sometimes I dropped out of sensation as a participant in these moments and it feels like I was never here.

What about the times when it feels like you ARE here? What is going on then?
It sounds to me like you are trying to reach a special state of no-self. Like you write here:

I have felt more relaxed in my body just after doing this simple looking

I have been less snagged by thoughts and criticism from myself or by me towards outwards occurrences

Is there a self when you ARE snagged by thoughts, or you don't feel relaxed?

[adam_brunt]

Ingen,

I will try to respond later today when I get done with work. I have family in town staying with me and work a swing shift, so that may create delay in my response. Thank you!

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