What now?

[katica]

It appears to me that you have discovered many flaws (contradictions) in the script, but not recognized that the whole script is a fiction. Your attempts to rewrite the script have led to confusion and pain. (this is my story - so it might not be accurate)

That could be, and great to know I am in the right place to stop the confusion and pain.

Yes, and there is no end to what you can find to repeat this - endlessly.
The answer is to step out of the script completely. Not into another one, but into a welcoming of the mystery that life-ing is.

That is reassuring!

Of course. We all get sucked into that chapter (of the script) It promises super human abilities. We can transcend anything that we don't want to experience. Ha, it's a good one.

Bummer! LOL.

No they are not. (i imagine) i bet that they still lose it occasionally. Ask Byron if you get a chance.
Oh, and "having a ways to go" doesn't compute.
It's not a path, or a journey. ..or a state. You can't progress to waking up. You are either awake or asleep. There is a moment when you are both (neither) - where it think that you might be now.

Well, I at least know that Ekhart does not like heat...his wife told a story of him not being able to just 'be' due to heat and she found him in the dark in the basement once as he could not find a place cool enough to just be. :)

Regarding where I am at, that is an interesting state LOL. And very well could be. Thought those moments I had seemed more awake than asleep. But there is still not complete clarity on this end! In otherwords, not laughing yet at God, or the universe or the joke. I now am using that as the benchmark for crossing the gate ;)

You are right. It exists only as a concept. Only in the mind does it exist. Body is a concept. A useful one.
So that you don't take this the wrong way. Consider this; How do you know that the back of your head exists ?
If you touch it, can you say anything more than there is sensation in (the concept of fingers) and the (concept of) head ?
We are not saying that it doesn't exist, but only that we can't know that it does. All we experience is sensation and thought. Nothing more. Can you see this ?

So I was reading just last night in the LU app that body in reality does exist, but we are not the body. Did I read that wrong?It had me confused.

katica wrote:
I still struggle with the concept we have no control. I feel like there is some control..
Ok, we will work on this soon. There is too much happening at the moment to do this justice.

Great...glad you know about this....as it's morphing more into acceptance more but there is still a glitch of resistance.

katica wrote:
I still don't feel like the wave from the ocean...
That is a very long term thing. There may be moments though. (my story again)

It's true..I have had moments of feeling connected.

katica wrote:
When the story of Kathy is seen through there is only consciousness or being...
No. Bullshit. You are jumping into another script. Where in your experience can consciousness or being, be found. These are concepts. Certainly one the pop literature promotes, but it is pure fantasy. Can you locate them ? ..or only in thoughts ?

Hmmm it could be belief. But I feel like I am part of life.....the unseen that is always there...its a feeling or sense. Perhaps it's imagination but feels real to me.

katica wrote:
and when we believe the concepts of this images from the supposed past and future we miss out on the only thing that is important and real...NOW.
Yes, i agree. ..but let's be clear. NOW isn't a thing. It's not even a time. For this reason, i prefer THIS, instead of NOW. (although it suffers from some of the same things - it's just not as corrupted by pop zen stuff)

I am clear. But for me NOW works well. Probably because when I had my experience which felt like a potential stream entry as you call it, time or my understanding of it's fictional use was brought me there. I just kept staying focused on NOW....there was a focus somehow on not back, not forward, just now......now. Where all images of forward and back were dropped.

Now sure where we are going next....so will comment that this morning I had a thought about something where I felt somewhat lied to or betrayed or where people were not being totally upfront with me (I have a huge trigger around friends not being honest and transparent). As mind started to go into the story there was a few seconds of pain, and it manifested in a couple of tears and before the tears came there was almost a sharp pain where they were arising into my eyes. Then a few drops. And the story was diminished..I still have more work to do on the story....ie I may do The Work on it later today.

Ok let me know where we go from here.

Thanks so much Vince!!!

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Kathy,

So I was reading just last night in the LU app that body in reality does exist, but we are not the body. Did I read that wrong? It had me confused.

Hmm, i don't know what the app says. i'm not familiar with it. In absolute terms, the body may or may not exist. This can't be known experientially. If you look for yourself, you will recognize 'body' as a concept that points to a compilation of bits. Most of which you aren't aware. The only bits that you are aware of are those that result in sensory input. ..and they cannot all be attended to at the same time. The bits that you are not aware of can only be inferred. They only exist as thoughts ABOUT them. Do you agree with this ? Does it resonate ?

But I feel like I am part of life.....the unseen that is always there...its a feeling or sense. Perhaps it's imagination but feels real to me.

Certainly. ..and it is probably a comforting feeling. This stuff, i am happy to leave in the area of the mystery of life-ing. It can't be known (or maybe it will be someday)
It fit's perfectly with a story i have (that may or may not be accurate - almost certainly incomplete) that we are not part of life, but that there can be no distinction between us and ALL.

I have a huge trigger around friends not being honest and transparent

Ah.. i remind myself that as i am a huge mystery to myself, that i cannot even begin to know what goes on for others, and unless they are into this stuff, they certainly don't know what conditioning they are exhibiting. Compassion for myself extends to great compassion for them.
Further to this i remind myself that as the world (including these 'others') is so filtered by my own conditioning that all i see is a version of myself in everything and everybody i perceive. So when i see (apparent) dishonesty in others, i quickly recognize my own past dishonesty. Without that, i couldn't see it on them. Compassion again.

Everything is here for me, and I still think it's for me to wake up. Maybe not, but I think that is the truth right now. I passed a dead dog on the road (we have many here) and usually I look away quickly and try to move to a more happy thought. This time I let the sadness be. And noticed that there was a bit of peace as it dissolved. Then a bum on the street..instead of not looking I LOOKEd and FELT as I was moving away. I did not try to make the feeling of compassion and sadness go away. It was then transformed again to nothing, which led to a bit more brightness. There were also some sad feelings that were passing by every now and then and I just let them in and poof...they were gone. There was no goal in this. Just more of an exploratory sense of wanting to know what they were

Beautiful. This is the stuff of an awakened one. Lovely. (tears of joy happening)

love

vince

[katica]

Hello Vince!

So, after spending much time just being, by myself, which was my recent preferred states, it seems I am getting out in the world again. And even moving the body more!

I wanted to ask you...did you notice as you were waking that the world looked brighter and shinier? I notice all the time that things are shiny, notice light more, and love lately watching shadows....especially when the wind blows. You should know i live in the tropics and most of the time I am sort of outside. We have lot's of open air living so I sit here inside but looking out onto an open courtyard with plants as I type this.

Also, I have noticed that things that were once not important have captured my eye. ie. I was mesmorized by a power line the other day. And a voice said, 'really? why?' and another said...'no really, look....the patterns of it are so cool!' Or a sidewalk...lol. Driving by an area where the put in a new sidewalk, I was so excited and thought how beautiful it was....and again realized how crazy that might be but again an voice repeated...no, it's really lovely.

f you look for yourself, you will recognize 'body' as a concept that points to a compilation of bits. Most of which you aren't aware. The only bits that you are aware of are those that result in sensory input. ..and they cannot all be attended to at the same time. The bits that you are not aware of can only be inferred. They only exist as thoughts ABOUT them. Do you agree with this ? Does it resonate ?

Yes! Totally. Funny that this morning on my bike ride something similiar came up for me. Somehow it was about breathing. And how I think I can have some control over breathing ie, but can I? Then I started thinking about how much our body just happens and how we can see much of what happens inside it....it's only a story.

Ah.. i remind myself that as i am a huge mystery to myself, that i cannot even begin to know what goes on for others, and unless they are into this stuff, they certainly don't know what conditioning they are exhibiting. Compassion for myself extends to great compassion for them.
Further to this i remind myself that as the world (including these 'others') is so filtered by my own conditioning that all i see is a version of myself in everything and everybody i perceive. So when i see (apparent) dishonesty in others, i quickly recognize my own past dishonesty. Without that, i couldn't see it on them. Compassion again

Ah, and if they are into this stuff? Yet are not where we are? We still don't know....Love the 'compassion for self extends to them'....

Hmmmm can see this that you mention bout dishonest...as Katie says, if there is a stressful thought, you are lying to yourself. So if I am upset with a friend for not being 100% honest in my own thinking, I guess I have my own work to do around this. It makes sense. And perhaps is one of my portals to go deeper into presence.

Beautiful. This is the stuff of an awakened one. Lovely. (tears of joy happening)

yes, it feels that way. Yet I still don't get the 'joke'. I want to get the joke! :) I am following your work with Moo and did not see what she saw yesterday.

With love and gratitude

Kathy

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Kathy,

did you notice as you were waking that the world looked brighter and shinier?

Oh yes. Direct experience, without the veil of concept is much more vivid.
Any description or explanation only vaguely resembles what is actual.
The brain has a handy and useful way of taking only enough clues from sensory input and then deduces what an object is. The result is that most if what we think we are relating to is based on prior experience and not the actuality.
A saying is "Like seeing with fresh eyes. Like a baby."

Ah, and if they are into this stuff? Yet are not where we are?

Yeah,shitty words. ..but you know what i mean. (even worse words) Them that are still asleep. (no sense of superiority here - just (attempts at) description)

So if I am upset with a friend for not being 100% honest in my own thinking, I guess I have my own work to do around this.

Yes, but i don't think that you have to work at finding an origin (although it can be useful) Simple awareness (and acceptance) that it is happening can be enough to dispel it.

And perhaps is one of my portals to go deeper into presence.

Yes, but heed a warning. This can also be a suck in to continued seeking. Which can be an endless path.
Don't get me wrong, "further" is an imperative, but that is with an attitude of accepting what shows up, not obsessive hunting down some elusive answers.

Yet I still don't get the 'joke'. I want to get the joke! :)

You will. (no joke can be explained without losing it's humor - the funniness is in the surprise.)

I am following your work with Moo and did not see what she saw yesterday.

She just SAW that I isn't. It was a whack in the head.
This is such a wide area. It covers so much ground (everything in fact) Some portals once passed through reveal what is beyond other portals, but there is always more. For example, the moment i saw that THIS IS IT, it was obvious that self was a story. But it wasn't until i found LU and was asked, that i even considered it.
All we are doing here, is rounding up loose ends.
Control is one of them.
Have a look at this video, especially that part where the narrator is put into a fMRI machine and asked to make decisions.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4AqGe ... sp=sharing

love

vince

[katica]

Good day/evening Vince!

Yesterday I had to fire an employee. Not my first time, but it was the easiest time. Actually, I asked her to leave her resignation letter with me tomorrow It felt so clean and clear. Yes, I has a bit sad at night but it was the right thing and no huge story around it and tormenting of mind as I have had in the past around these things.

Funny, I have seen that video and am sharing with friends that are ready to consider this reality. Yesterday some friends from Byron Katie were visiting from the USA and it was a delight to be able to share this same reality. In so many ways I get this...including in 1998 when I started working with poor kids in slums, I was sharing with my friends yesterday that I felt I was a vehicle back then. Never was frightened then to work in dangerous areas. Even the work I do, I have never considered my work....so on many levels I get it. Yet, there are the questions/doubts around....what if I suddenly decided to kill someone? Am I not responsible? What if I am cruel to someone intentionally? I think for the most part there is acceptance around this but there is still some resistance....

Love,

Kathy

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Kathy,

Yes, I was a bit sad at night

Was this sadness tinged with ok-ness ?

Yet, there are the questions/doubts around....what if I suddenly decided to kill someone?

In that video, you saw that the apparent decisions happened before he became aware of them.
i have developed a story that decisions happen at a cellular level, based on the necessary conditions being present.
Past experience and DNA, feeding into current circumstances, result in them happening.
Of course, anything can happen, but it's highly unlikely unless..

Am I not responsible?

Ah, this is a big one. Is responsibility more than a culturally conditioned concept ? Is there any evidence of it's existence, other than as a believed story ?

there is still some resistance....

Sure. Another story i have is that if we remove the elements that are conducive to suffering, that we reveal a default state of great compassion and joy. They take no effort, but are a natural expression of good health.

love

vince

[katica]

Good day Vince!

It's been a 'busy' week for me. Since all the internal changes, it is probably the most interactive week I have had. Lot's of people time and little time to just sit and be. I am pleased to say I am still fairly present. I think I was afraid I would 'lose' it if too much was going one. But truthfully, I am still in a place where I just want to sit and be. Like now, I am typing before work in my courtyard. Watching shadows....I just want to sit here all day and look yet must pick up donors a in a bit!

Was this sadness tinged with ok-ness ?

Definitely. And it continued yesterday. There seems to be a new me that is operating from a different place. Less from an emotional place and more from a one must do what one must place.

i have developed a story that decisions happen at a cellular level, based on the necessary conditions being present.
Past experience and DNA, feeding into current circumstances, result in them happening.
Of course, anything can happen, but it's highly unlikely unless..

That makes more sense then we are puppets. I have been sitting with this and when possible, watching thoughts and actions....there is a knowing here that it's not as simple as we are puppets....but still not clear...perhaps clarity will never come? But I do think it's kind of cool now to see how the thoughts just won't shut up sometimes. They are like trying to prove they are in control.

Right now I am playing with the idea that what arises in life is based on where we choose to put our attention..ie, i can focus on one thought that says "life is beautiful" or I can focus on a story I have in the back of my mind about a past co-worker that I could be furious over some recent actions.

That is my theory right now...

Ah, this is a big one. Is responsibility more than a culturally conditioned concept ? Is there any evidence of it's existence, other than as a believed story ?

This is a hard one....No there is no evidence of it's existence. And yes we create a conditioning we should not kill people for example . But it seems to me there is something about love and acting out of love that is important. Another story? Maybe....or maybe not? Lately, the more I am clear, the more love I feel. the more love I feel, the less desire I would have to harm someone.

Sure. Another story i have is that if we remove the elements that are conducive to suffering, that we reveal a default state of great compassion and joy. They take no effort, but are a natural expression of good health.

Yes, agreed! Sort of along the same line I was mentioning above...but refer to it as love.

Today I was thinking how cool it is to have you write daily. I want to share with you how much I appreciate it!

Love,

Kathy

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Kathy,

Less from an emotional place and more from a one must do what one must place.

..and i imagine that this is happening in a fairly relaxed fashion.

but still not clear...perhaps clarity will never come?

For me, it is clear that i will never completely understand the mystery. ..yet, there is clarity, certainty. i can't put my finger on what it is about though. i will have to meditate on this and get back to you, about it.

They are like trying to prove they are in control.

Ah yes. Good seeing. (there is certainty that to take most thoughts seriously, is a joke. The arrogance of these thoughts is hilarious.

Right now I am playing with the idea that what arises in life is based on where we choose to put our attention.

Yes. Certainly attention is the telescope through which we experience.
i think that you have been hoodwinked by thoughts to say that you choose where to direct it. If that really was the case, why would we ever pay attention to shitty stuff ?

Lately, the more I am clear, the more love I feel. the more love I feel, the less desire I would have to harm someone.

Yes. You are getting closer to the default state. Less distortion from suffering.

I want to share with you how much I appreciate it!

Yes, me too. Thank you for what i discover doing this. (maybe you will consider guiding too, when you feel ready. It has fantastic deepening effects.


love

vince

[katica]

..and i imagine that this is happening in a fairly relaxed fashion.

Yes for sure. This week has been interesting as it is the first time I have had little time for 'me' to just be. Yet things are just happening, and I am more relaxed. My job is full of 'drama' and stressful situations. Cases of child molestation this month are very prominent. Also Latinos have a culture of telenovelas and the outcome is living life like one. It leads to lots of drama. It is interesting to notice I am no longer buying the stories. At least the lighter ones, not there for the child molestations.

Yes. Certainly attention is the telescope through which we experience.
i think that you have been hoodwinked by thoughts to say that you choose where to direct it. If that really was the case, why would we ever pay attention to shitty stuff ?

Hmmm. Could be. I think I was imagining the more clear we become, the more we can choose where we put our attention. Sometimes a thought comes that creates discomfort. It seems I choose to follow it our pay attention to another one. Will sit with this more.

Yes, me too. Thank you for what i discover doing this. (maybe you will consider guiding too, when you feel ready. It has fantastic deepening effects.

That seems pretty likely, when I finally completely 'get the joke'....That is what this being seems to do...help 'others'. I definitely getting helping others is helping me.

So where do I go from here Vince? I feel like I am sitting on the edge...just waiting for the joke to hit me over the head.

With love,

Kathy

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Kathy,

It is interesting to notice I am no longer buying the stories.

The whole thing can appear as if you are watching a movie. This needn't mean a disconnect from it. It is more likely to mean a wider perspective is experienced (my story is that you are uncovering wisdom) You will be in a better position to do good, if you are not sucked into an emotional reaction.

not there for the child molestations.

Even this can evoke compassion for the abuser as well as the abused. (there is a sickness in this world - born of fear.)

I think I was imagining the more clear we become, the more we can choose where we put our attention.

Ah yes. We have to watch our stories of how it will be. (..and append the unknown outcome to them)
Choice, aye ? Isn't attention a thought about where to focus. Where does that thought come from ? Why that one and not another ?

I feel like I am sitting on the edge...just waiting for the joke to hit me over the head.

i think so too. (better put your crash helmet on)

love

vince

[katica]

Good morning Vince.

Cut my finger so typing is challenging. My thoughts are running a mile a minute these days...Making me crazy.

katica wrote:
It is interesting to notice I am no longer buying the stories.
The whole thing can appear as if you are watching a movie. This needn't mean a disconnect from it. It is more likely to mean a wider perspective is experienced (my story is that you are uncovering wisdom) You will be in a better position to do good, if you are not sucked into an emotional reaction.

Well yesterday I got sucked back in a bit with a friend. Luckily I was able to see what was going on before I started in with self blame. Realized I was falling for a script I no longer subscribe to.

katica wrote:
not there for the child molestations.
Even this can evoke compassion for the abuser as well as the abused. (there is a sickness in this world - born of fear.)

Yes, I was blessed with this experience in an exercise I did with Byron Katie. I came realizing the role of child molester is at least as hard as the victim. (I have been a victim myself).

Ah yes. We have to watch our stories of how it will be. (..and append the unknown outcome to them)
Choice, aye ? Isn't attention a thought about where to focus. Where does that thought come from ? Why that one and not another ?

Hmm you got me here. That sort of messes with my mind. A great question. I never thought of attention as a thought. I see that now. I see myself looking at something then a thought saying, focus on the thing I am already looking at! Ha.

Vince, these days I have been back to busy life. All I want to do is sit and be. Is this normal? Also, I am seeing my mind racing more out of control. I don't like it.

With love,

Kathy

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Kathy,

My thoughts are running a mile a minute these days...Making me crazy.

Ah, the craziness comes from believing that you need to pay attention to them.
i categorize thoughts into three categories.
1/ they are useful. In which case they come with a marker saying so.
2/ they are rubbish. In which case they can be treated like the sound of the refrigerator.
3/ they are rubbish, but so over the top that they are entertaining. Good only for amusement.

I was able to see what was going on before I started in with self blame.

Excellent. If you celebrate the seeing, with a laugh, you will develop the skill of seeing this before it happens. Good stuff.

I have been back to busy life. All I want to do is sit and be. Is this normal?

When the busy-ness is no longer as fulfilling, of course you want to escape it. If that is not possible, then you can experiment with allowing things to happen automatically. It's amazing what can happen without conscious focus. (have you ever driven a car and suddenly realized that there has been nobody doing it for the last bit of the journey - yet here you are ?)

I am seeing my mind racing more out of control. I don't like it.

Accept my three categories as a gift.

love

vince

[katica]

Good day my virtual friend,

So I am wondering today who is typing? Who is thinking these words? Wait, I know thought comes after action. So the magic of the universe is typing and my thought is then interpreting what comes out. True? So if the same thing happens from your end, then is that self talking to self? Wow if so! And does that mean self is playing with self anywhere there is interaction?

katica wrote:
I was able to see what was going on before I started in with self blame.
Excellent. If you celebrate the seeing, with a laugh, you will develop the skill of seeing this before it happens. Good stuff.

So get this, I was super annoyed with the friend again last night for 'killing my presence' after I had received an email from him. And I just cracked up now as I started to write this. Like he could do that! Darn voice in repeating stuff over and over in my head has nothing to do with him, as a matter of fact, at this moment he is not much more than a bunch of memories and thoughts. Last night I knew this was ridiculous but fell into the trap. I did sit with it and feel the annoyance and at one point I had the same strange feeling I had recently, sort of electric tears...no moisture. Strangest thing...

Yesterday I was at the gym. In between sets I opening up the LU app. And had the perfect quote. I don't recall the exact works but the gist is when the mind is uncontrollable (ha which is probably always), instead of trying to control it, treat it as a movie you are watch....it's much more enjoyable. That was helpful as well.

I like your three ways to handle thought. I imagine over time, more if it will be deemed laughable or useless.

Vince, I want to get the joke. So much I think it's blocking me. That is this person Kathy...intense...tenacious....persistent. Somehow I think that it may be to my detriment now. :) I am waiting for you to ask me some magical question for me to get it! LOL.

Have a good one!

Love, Kathy

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Kathy,

Good day my virtual friend,

Ha, love it. virtual and literal too.
Would it be accurate to say that the whole world is virtual ?

And does that mean self is playing with self anywhere there is interaction?

Brilliant. (excitement bubbling here) A view of one-ness that i hadn't considered.

I want to get the joke. So much I think it's blocking me. That is this person Kathy...intense...tenacious....persistent. Somehow I think that it may be to my detriment now. :)

Yes, if you get obsessed with getting it, when you do, it won't be funny. It is surprise that gives rise to the humor.
If i tell you what it is, then it won't be funny.
i have no doubt that you will 'get it' when things fall into place.
The "intense...tenacious....persistent." is not to your detriment. As long as focus doesn't narrow too much.

I am waiting for you to ask me some magical question for me to get it! LOL.

Oh, pressure ? (ha, i too would love to come up with the question that blows your mind into ...)
Ok, try this; If you've already got it, but don't yet know that you've got it, have you got it ?

love

vince

[katica]

katica wrote:
Good day my virtual friend,
Ha, love it. virtual and literal too.
Would it be accurate to say that the whole world is virtual ?

Yes! I would think so! It's easier to 'see' this when others are not in front of me.

katica wrote:
And does that mean self is playing with self anywhere there is interaction?
Brilliant. (excitement bubbling here) A view of one-ness that i hadn't considered.

Also thought of something along the same line, now that I am grasping the concept of self in 'others'. For this reason perhaps when one throws a hot coal at one, he burns his own hand as well. It a mean action hurts the sender as well as the receiver...because we are ONE. Never have i don't something to harm someone and not felt badly....friend or foe.

Yes, if you get obsessed with getting it, when you do, it won't be funny. It is surprise that gives rise to the humor.
If i tell you what it is, then it won't be funny.
i have no doubt that you will 'get it' when things fall into place.
The "intense...tenacious....persistent." is not to your detriment. As long as focus doesn't narrow too much.

Ok, hard to let go of the obsession lol. But will try. Each time I think I am in a good place I think, 'perhaps now???'.

Glad to hear my persistence will be a benefit. I have only had this one other time in my life so strongly...that is my work I have been doing. Founding and running the NGO I run...never could drop it. Been at it since 1998.

Oh, pressure ? (ha, i too would love to come up with the question that blows your mind into ...)
Ok, try this; If you've already got it, but don't yet know that you've got it, have you got it ?

Oh yes... LOT's of pressure haha.

Tried it. No cigar. :( It's a good one though, still playing with it. Right now I say, nope...if I don't see it then it's not real ;) Especially since we are looking for truth. Mine is still clouded.

Today at the gym I was watching traffic in between sets. it reminded me of thoughts. Some fast and fleeting. Some slower. Clumps of them the hardly any. Different shapes and forms. It was a blast.

Also interesting thing. A guy from work came to my home on a motorcycle. About 30 secs before he came my dog started barking and going crazy. We live in busy area. So it would surprise me that he knew the sound of this motorcycle....at any rate my heart stopped for a minute, my mind too when I realized HE may have been just doing what he is supposed to do (life doing it's thing) and his action was out of sync or came before thought (dogs thought if that is exist) early. Crazy probably but what we are talking about in general might be considered crazy.

Hope you are having a good one!

Love,

Kathy