I am seeking an experienced nondual guide !

[jayjay2]

O.K. thanks I hope you get well soon.

Jay

[unplugged]

Thank you Jay.
I have another guide for you but he works differently than me - would you mind starting from the beginning with him? He would prefer that to trying to follow what I have done. Please let me know and I will let him know.

[jayjay2]

Yes, That would be fine.
Jay

[jayjay2]

Hi,

I had a guide but she was not able to continue. When another guide is available please contact me.

Thank you,
James

[forgetmenot]

Hi James,

My name is Kay and I am happy to continue with you to explore through the idea of their being a separate self. I do guide differently to Dyann, so I would want to start from the beginning...if you are okay with that..then just let me know and we can begin.

Love, Kay
xx

[jayjay2]

Hi Kay,

I am ready to go. Let's get started from the top.

All my best,
Jay

[forgetmenot]

Hey Jay,

Okay, so we start from the beginning. And this is how I begin all my explorations.

My name is Kay, and I am happy to assist you in exploring the illusion of the ‘separate self’. I can only point the way but you have to see it for yourself. That is why we are described as guides and not teachers. If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660


Some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. Post at least once a day or every second day. If you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. ANSWER ONLY FROM ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

This exploration is based on questions and exercises. I will ask questions as a means of pointing, but the questions aren’t about finding something unknown. The questions refer to what is already actually known. And what is already known? Sound, smell, taste, thought, sensation and colour. So, questions are not answered through thinking/thoughts (theories) but by LOOKING. What is LOOKING?

‘LOOKING’ is just plain looking at what is here right now. It is moving from the conceptual to actual experience (AE). The term “Actual Experience” (AE) is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ without the thought stories. So, actual experience (AE) is image/colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought, at face value. What thought says ie, the content of thought is NOT experience. This is evidenced by the fact that you cannot taste the word 'sweet'. So, when looking at actual experience (AE), you are looking at raw experience WITHOUT what thought says ABOUT the raw experience.

To begin with, I would just like to know what your expectations are for having this exploration. So, in your own words could you please answer the 5 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?
What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?

Please answer the questions highlighted in blue text individually, and remember to highlight the question being answered by using the quote function.

Cheers, Kay
xx

[jayjay2]

Hi Kay,

Thank you for guiding me !

How will life change?

I will really know my true nature. I will see the world as one conciousness or spirit.

How will you change?

I will realize that I am one with everything and truly feel it and hopefully act like it.
I will be less anxious and have less fears and worries.

What will be different?

Not much will be different but everything will because I will see things from my self realized nature and see the truth of who I am and what the world is.

What is missing?

I feel like I have to do everything. I have to make money to survive and it worries me. I want to be able to trust that everything will be o.k..

What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?

Help with guidance to become liberated from what I think I am and assistance or guidance to ask me questions to help me come to the realization of what the worl is and what I truly am.

Thank you,

Jay

[forgetmenot]

Hi Jay,

How will life change?

I will really know my true nature. I will see the world as one conciousness or spirit.

This is a big expectation and a good one to be aware of, as there is an idea that somehow ‘oneness’ will change how you actually visually and mentally see the world. There has never been a separate person and there has never been separation of any sort, ever.

What it 'feels like' right now, is what it 'feels like' to not be a person. But thought doesn't know that, hence the 'expectation'.

LU is about seeing what you are not, and not about what you are, so our focus will be on that.

How will you change?

I will realize that I am one with everything and truly feel it and hopefully act like it.
I will be less anxious and have less fears and worries.

There has never been a separate self. There was not one before this exploration and not one now, reading this. Perception changes, but seeing through the separate self is just a beginning and not an ending. Residual reactions, patterns and emotional baggage have to be looked at and worked on by you after gating. Seeing through the separate self is one realisation of many, albeit the main realisation.

LOOKING to see through the separate self brings its own sets of fears, anxiety, anger, resistance, frustration and resentments. When these appear, let me know so that we can look at them together.

What will be different?

Not much will be different but everything will because I will see things from my self realized nature and see the truth of who I am and what the world is.

There is no ‘self realised’ nature. THIS is it, how it is seen now, without the content of what thought says THIS is. How would you even know what the self-realised nature would look like? So this expectation would be a hindrance in the actual seeing, as there is this waiting for something special to happen to tell you that you have passed the gate. It’s important that all expectations of what ‘seeing’ looks like or feels like to be put aside…as when it happens it can be very subtle and be missed because there is a waiting for trumpeting angels, bright lights, blissful feeling, or this idea that you will know what it feels like to be a tree or a horse or some such. There is no Buddha state that you become….that in itself is just another concept and we are here to see through concepts…not attain new one’s.

What is missing?

I feel like I have to do everything. I have to make money to survive and it worries me. I want to be able to trust that everything will be o.k..

Whether or not money is made has nothing to do with seeing through the illusory self. However, there is no one and no thing that is controlling THIS. Life is just lifing but it is happening to no one or no thing either. There is nothing missing and never has been.

Worry is just a thought, and in and of itself has no meaning or power whatsoever and in actual experience there is no one/no thing that is or can become worried. But this will become clearer and we move through the exploration.

The label ‘worried’ is the actual experience (AE) of thought and not the AE of worry
The sensation labelled ‘worried’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of worry
The image labelled ‘body/me/ is the AE of colour and not the AE of a person who is worried.

So, there is no actual experience of being ‘worried’, what is actually appearing is label + sensation + colour + thoughts about ‘worry’.

Love, Kay
xx

[jayjay2]

Hi Kay,

Thank you that was very helpful.

Yes, my focus will be on seeing what I am not.

This no self I guess I should say will try and not have expectations.

Seeing through concepts is important.

The line below is something you wrote. Can you expound on what you mean by is the Acutal Experience of Colour?
The colour part needs to be understood by this what do we call it body/mind/organism? Anyway are you saying I just see colours?

The image labelled ‘body/me/ is the AE of colour and not the AE of a person who is worried.

Blessings !

Jay

[forgetmenot]

Hi Jay,

The line below is something you wrote. Can you expound on what you mean by is the Acutal Experience of Colour?
The colour part needs to be understood by this what do we call it body/mind/organism? Anyway are you saying I just see colours?

The image labelled ‘body/me/ is the AE of colour and not the AE of a person who is worried.

Thought labels colours, sensations (cold/hot/pressure etc) and so on as a body - but no actual body is present. Thought does this with *everything* that seems to exist to create the 'person in the world' illusion.



Notice what is actually present, what is actual experience in this image. Thought says it's a cartoon character called Bart Simpson, but all that's actually there is yellow, red, blue, white, black. There is no Bart present in the image at all.

Can you see that Bart is 100% just a story? The body is a story in the same way.

Also notice that the thing which thought claims is your body doesn't even have a head!

Can you see a head or are there only thoughts about a head?

Close the eyes and put a tip of a finger to the top of the head. Now, ignore all thoughts and images about a ‘fingertip’ and ‘head’ and what is the actual experience?

Please answer all questions in blue text individually, remembering to use the quote function.

Love, Kay
xx

[jayjay2]

Hi Kay,

Please don't take my questions the wrong way. I'm not trying to challenge you in any way. I'm just trying to express the questions and doubts that come up. This way if I address all those things we can eventually be on the same page. I appreciate your working with me.

I understand. I am not the body, the mind or the thoughts . I am open, spacious awareness. I'm spirit, consciousness.

However, are you saying that there is not a physical body present that can be touched?

I was under the impression there was a physical body. Although I'm much more than that I'm awareness, consciousness which is some how acting through or using this physical body to have an earthly kind of experinece.

Is my thinking incorrect?

Can you see that Bart is 100% just a story? The body is a story in the same way

I see that Bart is just colors. Yes, I can see it is a story. But when taken as a whole doesn't it become more than just colors?

When you say the body is just a story. I don't quite follow that?

Like with Bart Simpson yes I can see he is a story but there are colors so there is something physical there in the cartoon.
So, if your saying the body physically does exist. That it is just parts, arms legs etc. But giving it a name like Jay etc. I can see that as a story. But there is something physical here that I touch.

Can you see a head or are there only thoughts about a head?

There are only thoughts about a head. However, I can touch it and see it in the mirror.

Close the eyes and put a tip of a finger to the top of the head. Now, ignore all thoughts and images about a ‘fingertip’ and ‘head’ and what is the actual experience?

Just a sensation on the head.

Best Wishes,

Jay

[forgetmenot]

Hello Jay,

The body, at this stage of our exploration can wait. So, we will come back to the body after we have looked at thoughts. I have a structure to the way I guide and thoughts need to be seen for what they are before we look at anything else.

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts:

(1) Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

(2) This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

(3) Then wait for the next thought to come.

(4) When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

(5) Then wait for the next thought to come.

(6) Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts.
Looking how they come and go.
And observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a 'gap' between two thoughts.

Let me know how you go.

Love, Kay
xx

[jayjay2]

Hi Kay,

I was just doing that for the last 5 minutes it was great!

Thanks,
Jay

[forgetmenot]

Hello Jay,

I was just doing that for the last 5 minutes it was great!

Well, I would like for you to do it more than once!
I would like for you to do it throughout your waking day, trying to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a 'gap' between two thoughts.

Let me know how you go and what you notice about the gap.

Kay
xx