only truth stuff,liberator help me to see

[nil akash]

hey i have posted earlier in one of liberators forum but didn't get any reply seems like most liberators are enjoying their liberation and is slow in replying..hell who cares i am not a messiah or saviour.

now, this post is to all liberators here plz help me to get unstuck.i know i can do it myself but hell i still need to discuss something i just not getting it.plz 'liberate me'..its not foolish to ask so ,after all site is liberation unleashed

i am 18 years old..quite guy,no interest on relationships,did a lot of mediation and tantra and taoistic stuff and end up fooling myself all through out the way...oh devil's grace nobody told its not about truth but all teasing and twisting with human psycology...now its all over.i did some spiritual autolysis after reading the infamous jed's books but the process consumes a lot of my heads energy..i am bound and tired..not seeing way forward...everything is dark and lost.plz liberate me of dellusions.any serious reply needed in earnest.

[Bill]

from the other post:

my name is navneel and i am 18 years old i loved reading playing watching tv and then one day everything changed and now i ended up with banging my head on the wall every day.i am stuck....i have meditated quite a lot...read a lot spiritual and non spiritual books ....and all that all no use.i have read jed books and is statred 'spiritual autolysis' or rather 'non spiritual non normal autolysis' and it consumed a lot of energy out of my brains.i see no way forward.hell .then i stuck with thye site 'ruthless arena' and get twisted my brains with self and no-self thing.oh and i am not getting sleep -well it doesn't matter.sorry that was quite a lot as opposed to your asking for a little about myself.
and you ask "what you expect from being here"..how could you ask such a stupid question?dont take it wrongly.i want nothing just nothing but clean my eyes of and see the bloody TRUTH.if thats what you call liberation so be it.i want it to be unleased..ha ha as your site says.hope you will help me on this and let me out my ill dellusions.so to end i am counting on you.no thanks in advance...only if it helps..

[Patrick]

Hey Nil,

Welcome.
Bill is at work for the moment and proposed that I should guide you.

liberate me of dellusions
I can't liberate you from your illusions but you can have a look at this by yourself.
My job is to point in the right direction.

Let us start with having a look at what direct experience is and what thought is.
Direct Experience:
Hearing, seeing, touching, smelling, tasting. Sensations in the body like hunger, thirst, pain.
This is the level of experience of animals, newborn babies.

Thoughts:
Mind activity. labeling, judging, analyzing, narrating, commenting. Usually ”heard” as your voice in your native language. The images/pictures envisioned in the mind.

Thoughts layer concepts over the direct experiences.
A thought (concept or label) is never the actual. Some thoughts point to the actual and some point to other thoughts. The content of every single thought is just a story.
Either a story about the actual or a story about another story, but a thought or story cannot be the reality.

Describe a direct experience.
Is there is an ‘I’ or a ‘me’ present in the direct experience?
Look at this very closely with total honesty. Do not jump to conclusions.
See how the mind begins to label the direct experience.

[nil akash]

ya its true experiences are automatically labelled dont know how or why..for eg if i touch fire,it automatically comes to mind'its hot' but again hot is a relative and have no true existence.its just sensations of fire.thats all.but i think our centres like instinctive,emotional,intelectual are interlinked and influences each other.

is there an 'i'?
well honestly dont know.there must be someone responsible for all this happenings.oh..hell i am stuck in this responsibility stuff.

[Patrick]

there must be someone responsible for all this happenings

Why should there be ‘someone’ responsible?
How far should you be responsible?
Where is the limit between your responsibility and that of another?


How does it feel for you if there is only life living life? That everything is okay as it is?

[nil akash]

Hey patrick
Sorry to post it late
Okay..
I dont know what is right and what to write .well I see my mind or whatever creating thoughts of all this and my organism is stuck in this big matrix.everything seems right unless something is wrong and missing, well now I am out of my mind I am typing quite fast hell ...everything is like programmed our everything and mind is doing its job flawlessly engaging us in everything but truth.but still I feel there its something inside like a trigger of a bomb that get hit by anything from an idea or in my case the ever increasing '' discontent'' towards this life that makes me engaging me to keep the eyes on truth.oh how stupid to tell you all this .as for responsibilty stuff I dont know know everything seems so perfect and unfolding automatically I guess u know my position.you ask how is the idea life living life well is there any other way.hmmm hell u tell me.but I still feel I got lot more dellusion or the like thing is not fully cracked up.where is it missing or is it a belief rather.where is the one thinking which mises something...i dont know honestly hell please help.

[Patrick]

Hi Navneel,
Nice to hear from you again.

where is it missing or is it a belief rather

Let’s have a look on how belief thoughts work.
Close your eyes and imagine that you are holding a spoon in your hand. Feel the shape, the metal, the sensations. Do this until the spoon feels completely present in your hand. Feel this spoon as if it’s real. Then open your eyes. The spoon isn’t there and was never there. It was your mind who made the spoon up.
The same happened with the sense of me, the I.
When you was a young child they told you that you had to behave in a certain way, to improve yourself, the be somebody. All this thoughts mingled with sensations and feelings build gradually an image of a self. When you look closely at all this thoughts, feelings and sensations about a ‘me’ you see that there are not real. They are just made up like the imaginary spoon.

Do you see this?

[nil akash]

I see beliefs as fishes living in water one creating the other ,playing with each other, fighting with each other-etc etc.and most importantly its fear sustaining the pond and the fishes.
I have some questions
What is the difference between thinking and understanding?
What is truly true that is what is verifiable?

I am forcing my mind anytime possible to see the truth but all I end up is confused and no way out .what else is needed if any to see the truth without any tickle of doubt?

[nil akash]

I was just wondering what you would reply and guessing the answers seeing whether liberated ones are predictable or not ha ha he he.

Just out of curiosity I want to say something how would it feel liberating people everyday oh don't u get bored with all this liberation stuffs I would have ran towards the magnificent himalayas or playing guitar near some beach.i guess u will answer these or not.ha ha.just wanted to know hell I don't care much.i just love my selfishness....isn't that bad? Ha ha.

[Patrick]

This is not the place for philosophical discussions.
There are plenty of websites for doing this.

Most of the websites are for the ones who love their self and want to improve it.
You stay here and inquire really into no-self or you leave for other websites that are more of your taste.

All the best
Patrick

[nil akash]

Oh thank u for that reply to get me to my senses. I think I will stay here and inquire.

[nil akash]

So as I see I have to see the nature of thoughts or beliefs not what they mean.
I dont know why this happens what ever realization they are all seems somewhat intellectual , in extreme conditions and fear it seems to get forgetten.it feels a self is projected automatically as if its needed.whether real or a created one.hell I don't know what to do...


(by the way thank you being so hard on me you are not like other gurus online just fulfilling each others ego. I truly blessed that existence has chosen the right liberator for me )

[Patrick]

You mention fear. Could you tell more about this?

[nil akash]

I am looking into the fear.i see it a major imperfection in our system.its disgusting I feel it some times in abdomen region.it prevent me from being and working independantly.but then I see my most of the thinking and doing has some connection with fear.i see it as major barrier to freedom.earlier I used to think I was some courageous guy but when I looked into I knew it directly I was stuck in this big matrix of fear rule.thats it.

[Patrick]

I see my most of the thinking and doing has some connection with fear

There is a thought at the base of fear.
Can you find which thought is the most basic thought at the base of your fears?