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[mark_tywharton]

Yes it is from experience, and yes, it is lived daily. I spend several posts describing the experience, which you so easily dismissed.

It is like "nothing"... indescribable... it just is... it is nothing in everything... it is meaningless...

ok, try this... eliminate all language from your mind... all labels... all concepts... all ideas you have about everything you think you know... then you will know...

okay, yes

please stop identifying with the sensations

are you anger?

are you happiness?

are you sadness?

awareness of all these things arises but it doesn't arise for anyone

nobody knows

just is

[mark_tywharton]

I called it life so you could relate... however, life is also an inaccurate language label we use, and the label is only a representation of "something," consequently, you can call it anything, however, it is all meaningless... including and especially life...

hmmmm

[mark_tywharton]

It is like watching a movie... you observe to see what happens next... and obviously you are not controlling the action... you just watch... at times you might get a thought as to what might happen... or a thought about a memory you have... but at times... you have no thoughts and are just watching... the thoughts are like a comment some one next to you makes (your ego)... you listen... and you get back to the movie... watching as much detail as you can... you become completely present to the moment... and there is nothing else... just watch what happens and enjoy the ride...

okay let's just check a few final things here

life like watching a movie happens - so who is doing it?

when you followed the observed back to the observer

what was it?

in experience did you experience your self?

present in the moment?

so is there just the moment?

thanks

[mark_tywharton]

When all you do is "observe" and be present, you witness "life" just like a tree, and everything else in universe does.

We are just another animal, another creature, another organism, with a funny things called a mind.

Not really noticed this.

This is noticed. There are pattern matches for the terminological overlay of the English language in the mind, which can be identified as the sound of a bird and an old car in the distance. It pattern matches a Morris Minor, there is a jet plane, it is light, dry and the sky is blue. The computer keys are plastic, badly manufactured, the computer is hot and noisy, there is the sound of a child playing with a mother and it matches a pattern about a boy being born about seven years ago.

I think it is probably more sophisticated at processing data than a tree :)

It isn't really witnessing anything. It just thinks it is because it is part of the perceptual model for being human.

Whatever that is!

[helio]

I read this quote today that explains exactly what I have experienced... "At that point, the whole stance of the witness absolutely disappeared. There was no subject anywhere in the universe; there was no object anywhere in the universe; there was only the universe. Everything was arising moment to moment, and it was arising in me and as me; yet there was no me. It is very important to realize that this was not a loss of faculties but a peak-enhancement of them, it was no blank trance but perfect clarity; not depersonalized but transpersonalized. No personal faculties--language, logic, concepts, motor skills--were lost or impaired. Rather, they all functioned, for the first time, it seemed to me, in radical openness, free from the defenses thrown up by a separate-self sense. This radically open, undefended, and perfectly nondual state was both incredible and profoundly ordinary, so extraordinarily ordinary that it did not even register. There was nobody there to comprehend it, until I fell out of it (I guess about three hours later)."

[mark_tywharton]

I read this quote today that explains exactly what I have experienced... "At that point, the whole stance of the witness absolutely disappeared. There was no subject anywhere in the universe; there was no object anywhere in the universe; there was only the universe. Everything was arising moment to moment, and it was arising in me and as me; yet there was no me. It is very important to realize that this was not a loss of faculties but a peak-enhancement of them, it was no blank trance but perfect clarity; not depersonalized but transpersonalized. No personal faculties--language, logic, concepts, motor skills--were lost or impaired. Rather, they all functioned, for the first time, it seemed to me, in radical openness, free from the defenses thrown up by a separate-self sense. This radically open, undefended, and perfectly nondual state was both incredible and profoundly ordinary, so extraordinarily ordinary that it did not even register. There was nobody there to comprehend it, until I fell out of it (I guess about three hours later)."

Okay thank you.

Can you see that for it to have been experienced as described, then you could not have experienced it?

I know this seems like semantic bull shit but it is important.

Until you are willing to look without being afraid, then there will be some tatter of self left to identify with.

It always seems your 'ego' (to use your terminology) is still clinging onto some form of identity.

You are like a frightened kid high up in a tree, who doesn't realise when it falls, the ground is an illusion.

Let go!

[helio]

Can you see that for it to have been experienced as described, then you could not have experienced it?

Then who do you think experienced it?

I know this seems like semantic bull shit but it is important.

It is semantics

Until you are willing to look without being afraid, then there will be some tatter of self left to identify with.

These kind of statements assume so much, and these assumptions actually distort your communication:
1)

Until you are willing to look

If you do not think that I am willing to look after everything we have discussed, then either I am not communicating effectively, or you have misunderstood what I have said. The simple reason that I am here should tell you that I am willing to look, and just because I "see" things differently does not mean I am not willing to look.

Until you are willing to look without being afraid

One thing that changed, when my perspective changed, is fear... it is non-existent for me. Fear is only an illusion in the mind about future events, that we choose to believe will be true. This does not apply any longer.

It always seems your 'ego' (to use your terminology) is still clinging onto some form of identity.
You are like a frightened kid high up in a tree, who doesn't realize when it falls, the ground is an illusion. Let go!

It is not that I am hanging on, actually I simply have a different understanding of reality that you do.

You think that...

There is NO-Self, because everything is a combination of cause and effect variables. Consequently, this soup of variables creates everything in the universe and all human outcome; all actions, decisions, and thoughts... It is flowing as life, and that is all there is... just LIFE flowing as LIFE... everyone's future is predetermined by their unique combination of variables... and the mind clings to the idea that there is a self, but it is just life flowing.

Is this correct?

If it is, then answer a question for me... what happens after you die (after life)? Given the fact that energy can not be created nor destroyed.

If it is not correct, then please clarify...

And, for bonus points, can you tell me how you think reality appears to me?

[mark_tywharton]

I can answer what happens to you after you die.

Nobody knows.

[mark_tywharton]

there are some interesting people who have had near death experiences who you can speak to in Unleashed - our Facebook group.

[helio]

I can answer what happens to you after you die. Nobody knows.

Wrong... what happens after you die... IS... what happens after you die... nothing more, nothing less... However...

Even thou "nobody knows" or more precisely, "nobody knows the experience," one thing we can be sure of, due to the laws of physics (assuming these are correct of course)...

...is that the energy that you call life separates from the body and this separation cause the human to "die," however, since energy can not be destroyed it must continue being part of the universe some how... consequently, we are all one; the cosmos... whether we are in a human body or not...

The True Self transcends LIFE, because it continues after LIFE... The True Self transcends time and space... it is the Alpha and the Omega... It has always been and it will always be! The Universal Self

[helio]

What I have found out, is that once realized, it can change the course of life, because the limitations (due to "programmed" variables) simply vanish... the genetic ones still have an influence, but the social ones do vanish...

[helio]

Now I will throw in my own philosophical take on it and change one word... which does not change anything... I like to think of the universe as the monotheistic God... which is a completely different interpretation from the "old man in the sky" god, that everyone mistakenly associates to the monotheistic religions... nonetheless, this God... my God... is unfathomable...

[mark_tywharton]

I can answer what happens to you after you die. Nobody knows.

Wrong... what happens after you die... IS... what happens after you die... nothing more, nothing less... However...

Even thou "nobody knows" or more precisely, "nobody knows the experience," one thing we can be sure of, due to the laws of physics (assuming these are correct of course)...

...is that the energy that you call life separates from the body and this separation cause the human to "die," however, since energy can not be destroyed it must continue being part of the universe some how... consequently, we are all one; the cosmos... whether we are in a human body or not...

The True Self transcends LIFE, because it continues after LIFE... The True Self transcends time and space... it is the Alpha and the Omega... It has always been and it will always be! The Universal Self

You keep making this presupposition that there is a YOU.

A TRUE self? UNIVERSAL self? that can transcend life? space? time?

THERE IS NO SEPARATE THING!!!

In the interpretation "nobody knows the experience" the same thing can be true of life, LOOK!

The pointer is NOBODY - there is no YOU.

LOOK!

The answer to this is not in a philosophy book, a quote, this discourse...

The answer to this is in where YOU look for YOU and find nothing.

LOOK!

[mark_tywharton]

What I have found out, is that once realized, it can change the course of life, because the limitations (due to "programmed" variables) simply vanish... the genetic ones still have an influence, but the social ones do vanish...

REALLY!

They can be held in a different context but the only thing that should have vanished is the I that thinks it is in charge of all these variables...

And vanish may be the wrong word, it is realised, in the same way that the mechanism of an optical illusion if uncovered - the brain still sees the illusion, it just isn't fooled by it again.

This is a permanent shift in seeing and if there is a YOU there doing the seeing, owning this bull shit enlightenment and cosmic oneness that you keep speaking about, then it hasn't happened yet.

And we can keep talking like this, it's mildly amusing.

But LOOK!

[mark_tywharton]

Now I will throw in my own philosophical take on it and change one word... which does not change anything... I like to think of the universe as the monotheistic God... which is a completely different interpretation from the "old man in the sky" god, that everyone mistakenly associates to the monotheistic religions... nonetheless, this God... my God... is unfathomable...

Is that really "YOUR" philosophical take on it?

Or "A" philosophical take on it?

Can you see the statement is nonsensical?

If the Universe is a monotheistic God, then surely IT is everything?

So who is it who likes to think?

Notice that life branches

If arms could speak and were taught separation, could they find it fathomable?

Fingers?

Hair?

Nerve endings?

All of these apparently individual?

Notice how human beings personify things?

Herbie?

Aw!