Thread for Fariba

[faribaf]

Hi Fariba,

Would you still like to continue our dialogue?

You really need to be posting at least once a day in order to build effective momentum.

I would like to continue - I don't always have access to the Internet and tend work long hours.

I will make this a priority - thanks.


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Dava]

Hi Fariba,

No problem, do try and keep up the pace to the best of your abilities, it will prove most helpful to you.

Think of this as a dance, if you keep moving the steps keep flowing, but when you stop it becomes a bit clunky and you can forget where you are. What we're looking for here is so super obvious, you may wonder why you never noticed it before, hidden in plain site, but it does take a bit of relentless detective work on your part - my job is to give you suggestions where to look, and the more you look the more you see it.

So, lets keep dancing. Answer my questions when you get a chance.

Best wishes,
Dave

[faribaf]

I am trying to notice as I move through my day...

I have been sitting with my eyes closed for the last 20 minutes:
Where is "the body"? In my mind - I close my eyes and see images of forms.
Does it have a size? Most of the time it is large and feels vulnerably exposed - shrinks and expands
Does it have a weight? Heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy
Does it have a border? I can't feel the border
Can you find the point where the experience of a "body" ends and the rest of the world begins? No....wow!

What is your direct experience of that which we call "body"? pain and shame

[Dava]

Okay, great, time to drill down a bit.

Where is "the body"? In my mind - I close my eyes and see images of forms.

So your direct experience here was of the body as a series of thought forms, yes?

Does it have a weight? Heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy

What is the direct experience of "heavy" - how does heaviness appear?
Does this heaviness belong to something called "a body" when you look directly?
If so, what is it that tells you "this body feels heavy"?

Does it have a border? I can't feel the border
Can you find the point where the experience of a "body" ends and the rest of the world begins? No....wow!

Lovely observation

What is your direct experience of that which we call "body"? pain and shame

What is the direct experience of pain and shame?
How do pain and shame manifest at the level of physical sensation?
And what is it that tells you "this is pain", "this is shame"?

You can just repeat the same looking exercise with the above questions in mind.
Take a minute to relax and quieten before you do, and remember to keep a playful, curious touch to the investigation.

[faribaf]

'Thought forms' - yes, a really good description

Heavy: always there so it does not really appear. I know this observation is not in the moment but I have dragged the heaviness around for as long as I can remember - sometimes it gets lighter and I will pay more attention to what triggers that. Right now, paying attention to it makes it heavier - it is in my abdomen and radiates out from there. Seems endless as I cannot feel the edges. It tells me that I should not be here, evokes fear and anxiety - seems to have a big agenda...

Pain is physical - right now in my head and shoulders. Shame right now is in the pit of my stomach.

Pain is telling me that I am not paying attention to the physical realm - trying to get my attention - I don't seem to live in my body at all....wow!

Shame - I am ashamed of the harm I cause everyday with my thoughts and sometimes my words -seems to stretch back and forward across time...don't know what that even means but that's what came up. I am not good enough and I will never be good enough...

[Dava]

Pain is telling me that I am not paying attention to the physical realm - trying to get my attention - I don't seem to live in my body at all....wow!

Shame - I am ashamed of the harm I cause everyday with my thoughts and sometimes my words -seems to stretch back and forward across time...don't know what that even means but that's what came up. I am not good enough and I will never be good enough...

Okay, so staying at the level of physical sensations, without referring to the contents of thoughts or imaginings.

Where is this "I" that doesn't seem to live in the body?

Where is this "I" that is ashamed and not good enough?

If it exists then it should be something that you can objectively find in direct experience, if so, where is it?

Take a good look and report back what you find.

[faribaf]

These are difficult questions and I have been trying to feel my way....I can't locate it! At best it is in my mind's eye, a thought...it is made up of words. When I sit and listen, trying to locate the 'I' all that comes are words - mine and those of people through out time (even before 'I' existed).

I have taken several days and I have come up empty - I can't answer the question.

[Dava]

And yet you did answer the question

At best it is in my mind's eye, a thought...it is made up of words.

You spotted something crucial there

and

I have taken several days and I have come up empty

Did you find conclusive evidence for the existence of a "me" an "I" that mediates your experience, other than via thought forms?

A simple yes or no will do.

[Dava]

Let me rephrase that question ^_^

Did you find conclusive evidence for the existence of a "me" an "I" that mediates your experiences?

[faribaf]

no

[Dava]

Okay, so that was some good groundwork for looking in direct experience to see what is and is not findable.

Moving on from tactile sensations, let's take a look in other areas of direct experience, to see what can be found.

Allowing attention to focus on the experience of sound, just sit and notice what sounds are present.
Can you describe to me in whatever situation you might be in, what is the direct experience of sound.
Feel free to go into detail and evoke whatever tapestry might be at play.

Then answer this question;
when you look for a "hearer" or some sort of mediator of the experience of hearing,
what do you find?

Can you find a "me" or an "I" that is responsible for hearing?

(To answer yes, the "me" or "I" that hears must be objectively locatable without a shadow of a doubt,
if so, where is "the hearer that hears" located?)

[Dava]

Hi Fariba,

I'm going to make a suggestion.

If you are really interested in looking into this, that you make a commitment to replying at least once a day.
This might mean that for the moment you aren't able to continue our dialogue, and that you find the time and willingness to commit yourself at a future date.

The thing with this is that it will only be effective if;
a) You are really curious about looking, as in you really want to see through the illusion
and in turn
b) You are willing to commit to regular daily correspondence

I'm happy to make myself available to you for a regular dialogue, but only on the basis that you are willing and able to keep the momentum going. If you can do that now, then we'll carry on, if you can't do that now then feel free to drop a message into this thread at a time when you can.

If you've got stuff going on and haven't been able to let me know, then I understand.

Let me know if / when you're ready to continue.

Best wishes,

Dave