Looking for guidance - want to make progress!

[Jett]

Hi Damon,

Yes, thank you! How about you? How's Hawaii?

Good to hear :) Hawaii is both beautiful and amazing thanks! Having a great time.

Have we, though? This sounds a bit like speculation on the intellectual level, really.

Haha :D you got me there Damon! That's what I was getting at, what I was saying didn't seem experiential enough. So I looked pretty hard last night, and I realised that I'm still looking for something, even though there's nothing to be found. How do you find something that doesn't exist?

I was thinking about how sometimes things seem clear and peaceful, and.how sometimes they're hard or don't make sense (just basically how things change), and how I expect awakening to give me this unending state of.peace. But then I was looking at how I don't get to choose anything that happens, not even my reaction to things, and I realised that if I'm not even properly responsible for what I eat for breakfast, then how can I be responsible for peace, or bliss, or realisation or whatever? These things just come and go.

It was weird. Half of me was enjoying the realisation, while the other half of me felt quite sorrowful. I guess even the loss of the illusion of control can be painful.

What is an ego? In your experience- what is ego? How does what you call ego manifest itself?

Ego is the ghost in the machine ( to borrow a phrase you used earlier). It is all the things we take to be 'me'. "I am a woman, I work here, I vote this way, my personality is like this, this is my body, these are my beliefs." We think we have control over some of these things, that we, in a sense, own them, we think we can change the way we look, educate ourselves, reinvent our lives, and these things can certainly happen, but they happen by themselves, and they certainly don't require a "me" to occur.

Thanks Damon :)

Jett

[Damon Kamda]

I realised that I'm still looking for something, even though there's nothing to be found. How do you find something that doesn't exist

An analogy that is often used to illustrate this is that of the belief in Santa. Once it is fully understood that Santa has always already been a lie, an illusion, what remains to be found?

It's really this simple, Jett.

It takes quite a bit of courage to fully see this.

But then I was looking at how I don't get to choose anything that happens, not even my reaction to things, and I realised that if I'm not even properly responsible for what I eat for breakfast, then how can I be responsible for peace, or bliss, or realisation or whatever? These things just come and go.

Yes! This has nothing to do with any particular state of consciousness. It's a simple and humbling, yet profound realisation.

Yet when you say that you don't get to choose anything that happens, is that really so?

Is it a matter of choosing or not-choosing?

Are you sitting back somewhere deep in the background, not-choosing? Observing choices being made? Powerless to exert control?

I guess even the loss of the illusion of control can be painful

Yes, it can be somewhat painful, for sure. There is some grief involved sometimes.

Yet-look- is anything truly lost here?

Is anything truly lost other than a notion, a misinterpretation?

[Jett]

Hey Damon,

An analogy that is often used to illustrate this is that of the belief in Santa. Once it is fully understood that Santa has always already been a lie, an illusion, what remains to be found?

Yes, that certainly seems like a good analogy!

Yes! This has nothing to do with any particular state of consciousness. It's a simple and humbling, yet profound realisation.

It is! I've been trying to give this realisation and all its connotations sink in.

Yet when you say that you don't get to choose anything that happens, is that really so?

I think I see what you mean Damon. There is no 'me' that is 'not choosing'. Certainly choosing happens, but it doesn't require a 'chooser'.

Are you sitting back somewhere deep in the background, not-choosing? Observing choices being made? Powerless to exert control?

Hm, that's actually quite a deep question Damon. Its like the 'me' is so hell bent on being something, anything, that there is a danger of it assigning itself the role of the powerless witness. I think I was falling into that trap.

Do you mind if I observe this for a bit?

Yet-look- is anything truly lost here?

Is anything truly lost other than a notion, a misinterpretation?

An illusion can't be lost, only seen through.

My apologies for the rather short replies Damon, I've just been doing a lot of waking and looking. I'll continue to do so and report back soon!

Jett :)

[Damon Kamda]

Hm, that's actually quite a deep question Damon. Its like the 'me' is so hell bent on being something, anything, that there is a danger of it assigning itself the role of the powerless witness. I think I was falling into that trap.

Do you mind if I observe this for a bit?

Haha, no! In fact, this is a very important step. A trap indeed.

If you want, you can take a more meditative approach to this.

Sit down, slow down.

Take some time to observe everything that is going on as it is going on.

Whenever something arises, look for what is witnessing it.

Is there a witness separate from what is witnessed?

A seer separate from what is seen?

Where do things arise?
Where are things seen?

My apologies for the rather short replies Damon, I've just been doing a lot of waking and looking. I'll continue to do so and report back soon!

Short replies are usually a good sign!!

Enjoy the inquiry and let me know what comes up!

[Jett]

Hey Damon!

I've been a bit fixated on time the past couple days. I was at an art gallery looking at a pot that was about 8,000 years old, and I was just seeing how the only time it ever existed was now. No matter what its age, its only ever NOW. Same deal with a anything, a mountain, a meal, a car. Even if I remember that pot, its never going to be the same pot, I'll never experience it in the same way.

There's nothing of that pot that I can point to and say 'that is what that pot is', because I can never even experience it the same way twice.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, experiences are in constant flux. One day I feel happy, the other I feel like I am removed from everything, distant, watching. The point is, there is no self driving any of this, it just happens. Even if I feel like a self, this doesn't mean there is a self. If I feel like there is a helpless witness, this doesn't mean there is a helpless witness. These things just arise, and there is no 'supreme commander' of any sort.

Is there a witness separate from what is witnessed?

A seer separate from what is seen?

No there is not. There is only seeing happening. There is nothing that I can point to that does the seeing. The seeing just happens of its own accord. It arises, it is experienced, then it passes. No self interfering. There is nothing that is permanent, so there is nothing that I can point at and say, 'yes, that is the essence! That is the thing that controls it!'

Where do things arise?

Where are things seen?

Things arise and are experienced through the senses. Taste, touch, sound etc. They then pass away. Sometimes they are thought about, evaluated, but this to, relies on thoughts arising and being experienced.

Things aren't seen. That is, they don't require a 'seer'. They just, I have to use this word again, arise in the field of vision. We may think we are 'seeing' something, but seeing something doesn't require a person deciding to see, it just happens as it happens.

Haha :D just as I was apologising for the short replies, I've gone and written you an essay! Just really struck at the moment with how immediate experience is.

Jett :)

[Damon Kamda]

Hi Jett,

Good looking!

Let's keep doing this until it's absolutely crystal clear...

I guess what I'm trying to say is, experiences are in constant flux. One day I feel happy, the other I feel like I am removed from everything, distant, watching. The point is, there is no self driving any of this, it just happens. Even if I feel like a self, this doesn't mean there is a self. If I feel like there is a helpless witness, this doesn't mean there is a helpless witness. These things just arise, and there is no 'supreme commander' of any sort.

Yes, that is exactly what an illusion is, isn't it?

Seeing through it does not mean that the appearance will instantly vanish.
Yet something is seen through. Something has shifted.

There is only seeing happening. There is nothing that I can point to that does the seeing. The seeing just happens of its own accord.

And even this is open for examination.

Look again- what is actually experienced?

Do you experience "seeing" happening, separate or distinct from what is seen?

Things arise and are experienced through the senses.

How are "things" actually experienced? Where is the thing-ness of things observed?

They just, I have to use this word again, arise in the field of vision.

Excellent, very good!

Now look again and look closer.

Is there an actual field of vision in which things appear?
What separates the things from the field? What is the exact point of distinction (the border) between the thing and the field? What is the nature of that border, what is it made of?

Just really struck at the moment with how immediate experience is.

Wonderful! Keep looking at this. Look for any borders, gaps, holes, discontinuties, seams, levels, layers, dimensions. Every nook and cranny. Can you find anything separate from this?

[Damon Kamda]

Hi Jett,

Just checking in with you for a bit- it's been a couple of days. Everything allright?

[Jett]

Hi Damon,

Sorry for the long delay! First I was held up with travel back home, then I came back to some rather large family drama :D In the thick of it now, but trying to also use it as an opportunity to look.

Onto the looking! :)

Look again- what is actually experienced?

Do you experience "seeing" happening, separate or distinct from what is seen?

No, 'seeing' isn't something that can be experienced. I say that I 'see' a lamp, but there's nothing that happens where I'm 'seeing' its just that a lamp is there. We say seeing like it is an action we do, but it is effortless. It just happens.

How are "things" actually experienced? Where is the thing-ness of things observed?

I have to say what I did earlier. Things are experienced through the senses. Not in the way that there is an 'I' that is doing the seeing, smelling etc. But rather when I pick up an object, feeling happens, if I lick it, tasting happens. 'I' am not tasting it, but it seems undeniable that tasting happens.

Is there an actual field of vision in which things appear?
What separates the things from the field?

I feel like there is a field of vision in that when I close my eyes things disappear. So its like the field is what I can see when my eyes are open. That been said though, I can still afterimages and imagine things when my eyes are closed so I guess at a basic level I would say my field of vision is that which contains everything I can see.

That been said however, there's no actual tangible field. There is only what my eyes see at whatever particular moment I am looking at something. There's no actual invisible net type structure containing everything I see.

What is the exact point of distinction (the border) between the thing and the field? What is the nature of that border, what is it made of?

I feel like the distinction is the distance between my eyes and the thing. Say I'm looking at a cup, the way I would break it down is that there are my eyes seeing, then the space to the object, then the object itself.

Wonderful! Keep looking at this. Look for any borders, gaps, holes, discontinuties, seams, levels, layers, dimensions. Every nook and cranny. Can you find anything separate from this?

None! Its fluctuates so wildly right now especially, with everything going a bit hectic. I felt like I was trapped in a small space, unable to move, now and then the feeling arises that I am empty awareness containing every experience. The words 'endlessly renewable' keep popping up in my mind, because that's what it feels like reality is, every moment that happens, things are endlessly renewable. The cup I have on my desk isn't moving, but every moment it is a new cup, at least, its not the cup that was there a millisecond ago, or even a day ago. The emotions I am feeling now, fear, frustration, anger, they are never the same, they are endlessly changeable. What I feel as despair today, may turn into happiness tomorrow, and where will the despair have gone?

Sorry again for the delay in replying Damon. I am home now at least, so shouldn't have a long delay like that again. My answers are a bit all over the place I've noticed. Some things I seem to really be getting into, i.e. the utter transience of life, while others I'm still having trouble with. I will keep looking of course. Thanks for guiding me so patiently :)

Jett :)

[Damon Kamda]

Sorry again for the delay in replying Damon. I am home now at least, so shouldn't have a long delay like that again.

No worries, just wanted to make sure you're allright.

In the thick of it now, but trying to also use it as an opportunity to look.

Excellent! Every moment provides plenty of opportunities to explore deeper!

I feel like the distinction is the distance between my eyes and the thing. Say I'm looking at a cup, the way I would break it down is that there are my eyes seeing, then the space to the object, then the object itself.

Look again, Jett. How does the space between you and the cup actually show up in experience?

How does distance ever actually show up in experience?

None! Its fluctuates so wildly right now especially, with everything going a bit hectic. I felt like I was trapped in a small space, unable to move, now and then the feeling arises that I am empty awareness containing every experience. The words 'endlessly renewable' keep popping up in my mind, because that's what it feels like reality is, every moment that happens, things are endlessly renewable. The cup I have on my desk isn't moving, but every moment it is a new cup, at least, its not the cup that was there a millisecond ago, or even a day ago. The emotions I am feeling now, fear, frustration, anger, they are never the same, they are endlessly changeable. What I feel as despair today, may turn into happiness tomorrow, and where will the despair have gone?

Yes, everything is in constant flux.

And even the emotions you are feeling now, fear, frustration, anger.

If you take a moment to drop these labels, "fear", "frustration", "anger" and all the ideas and habits associated with those labels and actually look directly at what they are- the bare sensations, what is there?

[Jett]

Hi Damon,

Look again, Jett. How does the space between you and the cup actually show up in experience?

It doesn't. If I am looking at a cup, I don't experience or see space then a cup. I see a cup. It is very immediate. So no invisible space being experienced, only a cup that is seen directly. Maybe intimate is a better word? Before it seemed like I was always separate from objects, experiences, now I feel like they're right there, there is no separation.

How does distance ever actually show up in experience?

It seems it doesn't. I mean, I can see an object that is far away, and as I walk towards it it becomes bigger, closer. However, at no point do I actually experience something called space or distance. The object changes as I get closer. If we're talking touch, I may reach for something, and feel nothing, nothing, then something when I grasp the object, however, at no point do I experience distance. It is, once again, immediate.

If you take a moment to drop these labels, "fear", "frustration", "anger" and all the ideas and habits associated with those labels and actually look directly at what they are- the bare sensations, what is there?

There are just things being experienced and nothing else. If you take away all the labels, then there really are just sensations arising and falling.

I think I'm getting there Damon. It occurred to me today that there are just things happening, things being experienced without requiring an experiencer.

Jett :)

[Damon Kamda]

Hi Jett,

The object changes as I get closer.

Look again :-)

This may seem somewhat neurotic, but I'm inviting you to look past the spell of habit. Our language suggests that things are a certain way ("I see a cup"), yet is that really what is seen from the most intimate, direct thing we have available to us: our own actual experience as it is right now?

What is actually observed when you are moving towards an object? Can you describe the actual, sensory experience of walking towards an object?

For example, let's say "I am walking towards the wall" is happening.

Where and how, in this experience are the various poles of this statement (I-walking-wall)?

Also, in case of touching an object, the same inquiry applies.

I think I'm getting there Damon.

Ok! So, let's have a look.

Is there a you?
What is you?

[Jett]

Hi Damon,

Just quickly checking in with you. I have been observing hard. Possibly a short reply today.

What is actually observed when you are moving towards an object? Can you describe the actual, sensory experience of walking towards an object?

Sure thing! Okay, so there is a feeling of moving arms and legs, limbs being lifted and moved, the physical sensations, clothes against skin, breathing, feet against material in shoes. Then there is the visual experience. Say the wall is a while away. I start off seeing it as a small square perhaps, then as I lift limbs etc, as I walk, and all those others physical sensations arise, I see the square get bigger, and bigger and bigger. Eventually details may emerge on the square, a crack here, a different colour there. If I walk far enough, I will be stopped by the square that will now take up my whole vision.

Where and how, in this experience are the various poles of this statement (I-walking-wall)?

At first it seems like the poles are very clear. I am walking towards a wall. I am causing the action of walking, and that is bringing me closer to the object in the distance. Upon closer inspection though, it is a different story.

For starters, there is no I controlling all of this. Walking happens of its own accord, perhaps in relation to a need or desire to move somewhere. The walking occurs of its own accord. Also, much like how everything is extremely immediate, and arising and falling every moment, objects don't remain static as apparent movement happens. The wall, or coloured square if you like, that we see when we begin moving, is not the same wall we see when we get closer. Each moment it is changing, changing form, changing colour, sometimes seeming to change shape and detail. Basically the wall we see, is not the wall we get when we 'arrive'. And even that wall is not the final wall, as it will constantly change as we look at it, walk around it, climb on it etc.

Is there a you?
What is you?

No, there isn't a me. Feelings of being a 'me' or a 'person' arise, and sometimes don't arise, but that has nothing to do with whether there is a person. Which there isn't. Things get along fine without one, they happen by themselves, no need for a controller.

I am not anything. Things happen, experiences happen, things are ever changing, but that is the exact reason I am nothing, because nothing is ever static. There is nothing that remains the same, even for a millisecond. Even memories of things will never accurately recreate something, and those too, are fleeting.

Jett :)

[Damon Kamda]

Hi Jett,

The wall, or coloured square if you like, that we see when we begin moving, is not the same wall we see when we get closer. Each moment it is changing, changing form, changing colour, sometimes seeming to change shape and detail. Basically the wall we see, is not the wall we get when we 'arrive'. And even that wall is not the final wall, as it will constantly change as we look at it, walk around it, climb on it etc.

So the question here is: do we actually see a wall, separate from changing forms, colours, shapes and details?

The metaphor very much applies to the self as well: we appear to be hard-coded to recognize patterns in chaos:

No, there isn't a me. Feelings of being a 'me' or a 'person' arise, and sometimes don't arise, but that has nothing to do with whether there is a person. Which there isn't. Things get along fine without one, they happen by themselves, no need for a controller.

I am not anything. Things happen, experiences happen, things are ever changing, but that is the exact reason I am nothing, because nothing is ever static. There is nothing that remains the same, even for a millisecond. Even memories of things will never accurately recreate something, and those too, are fleeting.

So, how does it feel to see this?

[Jett]

Hi Damon,

So the question here is: do we actually see a wall, separate from changing forms, colours, shapes and details?

Basically, no. Much like your picture, a wall is a bunch of shapes, colors, sensations, etc. that we are taught to recognise as a wall. There is no wall separate from all this.

So, how does it feel to see this?

Its hard to describe. It seems very much like there is little change. But I am a lot more aware of the transcience of things. I guess I feel more at peace with the world? Knowing that things are ever-changing, means there is little point in clinging to things.

Not that there isn't still clinging, but there is less belief in it. Just as there is less investment in self. Sometimes I get caught up in it, then other times I recognise what a joke it is. I'm not as worried about it, I guess would be a good way of putting it? It will do its thing, but there is little to do with me.

Cheers Damon :)
Jett

[Damon Kamda]

Hi Jett,

Sorry for the delay, wasn't able to access the internet yesterday.

Now-let's continue chipping away at this, shall we?

Not that there isn't still clinging, but there is less belief in it.

How does clinging appear, really?
What is clinging?

Just as there is less investment in self.

What is a self and what does it mean to invest in one?

Sometimes I get caught up in it, then other times I recognise what a joke it is

.

What is the I that is able to get caught up in something?

What is the experience of "getting caught up"?

Is unfreedom ever actually real?
Has it ever been?