nostorynoself

[mllem]

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
seeking and a dropping away of seeking. i've been involved in spiritual search since the late '60s when, while attempting on my own to break through what felt like psychological limitations, i was thrust, unprepared into an expanded visioning. when the psychiatric model provided no answer to what i experienced, i began a spiritual search that has gone on for decades, within various spiritual communities. in recent times, the last few years, my desire for spiritual search has largely fallen away, except for my involvement, as an assistant, for a teacher in the (american) sufi community, and this has begun to feel untenable to me, as well. following some "bread crumbs," (john sherman, more recently jed mckenna), led me to "gateless_gatecrashers," and confirmed what i've been suspecting, that some "barrier" had been crossed, but i had no confirming context. i feel the context is being provided here, but as there are a couple of points (perhaps) that still abide, i thought i'd check out the forum. to be clear: i see no self when i examine, but..... :)

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:
clarification on a couple of points that have arisen from reading gateless_gatecrashers; i expect some finessing will lead to a clearer perception of no self, and hoping, as a result, to be more firmly established in here/now.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
decades of searching followed by recent indifference to all things spiritual.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what?: 11

[haleoherren]

Hello mllem

seeking and a dropping away of seeking.

What is it that says there is something wrong? What is it that is doing the seeking? Be specific in your answer and refer to what is happening right now as you examine the seeking.

i was thrust, unprepared into an expanded visioning

For this inquiry lets make sure we all expectations of some magical or mystical experience and just examine what is currently happening. Things are already as they are and having expectations will block you from seeing no self clearly.

to be more firmly established in here/now.

Is it ever possible to NOT be here and now? I understand that you are probably looking to be more firmly established in your senses instead of your thoughts but aren't even thoughts about the past and the future happening now? Check to see if you can ever find a time that is here/now.

i see no self when i examine, but..... :)

Does the body experience or is the body experienced?

[mllem]

What is it that says there is something wrong? What is it that is doing the seeking? Be specific in your answer and refer to what is happening right now as you examine the seeking.

Clever questions! I guess no-thing says that; the seeking drops away; the illusion of a self was “doing” the seeking; seeking was happening.

[mllem]

Is it ever possible to NOT be here and now?

no.

[mllem]

Does the body experience or is the body experienced?

The body is experienced.

[haleoherren]

I guess no-thing says that; the seeking drops away; the illusion of a self was “doing” the seeking; seeking was happening.

Can you explain to me precisely what the illusion of self is?

The body is experienced.

Can you tell me where you are in terms of understanding/seeing the subject object illusion?

[mllem]

Can you explain to me precisely what the illusion of self is?

There is no such thing. This was a misapprehension. It was a thought. Closer to truth: Seeking was happening.

[mllem]

Can you tell me where you are in terms of understanding/seeing the subject object illusion?

I am not sure what is referenced by this term (subject object illusion).

If it means: the illusion of the possibility of there being a separate subject/object, I would say I am of that experience.

[haleoherren]

i expect some finessing will lead to a clearer perception of no self, and hoping, as a result, to be more firmly established in here/now.

Going back to your original post... can you tell me what it is that is expecting a clearer perception? Which part of no self is confusing? What will a clearer perception look like?

clarification on a couple of points that have arisen from reading gateless_gatecrashers

Can you tell me which points you are expecting to be clarified?

[mllem]

Going back to your original post... can you tell me what it is that is expecting a clearer perception? Which part of no self is confusing? What will a clearer perception look like?

Not sure how to reply to this. Not sure if these words have meaning....

[haleoherren]

Can you tell me which part of no self you find confusing?

[mllem]

Can you tell me which points you are expecting to be clarified?

They don't seem substantial, just fluff thoughts.

[mllem]

Can you tell me which part of no self you find confusing?

Thought I had answered this, but guess not.

No, not confused about no self.

[haleoherren]

Once you see that you have no self then you can't unsee it. Thoughts still come in and project a mini me afterwards but in time this will settle down. No self isn't a super magical experience. Thoughts say it should be but check and see for your self. Would you like me to ask you the final questions to be sure you've seen through the illusion of individual self?


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[mllem]

Once you see that you have no self then you can't unsee it. Thoughts still come in and project a mini me afterwards but in time this will settle down. No self isn't a super magical experience. Thoughts say it should be but check and see for your self. Would you like me to ask you the final questions to be sure you've seen through the illusion of individual self?

Yes, thank you.