Postby illusions13 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:13 pm
1. Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
There doesn’t seem to be any tangible separate ‘’I’’ etc. Just a feeling of some kind of perception of whatever happens around us. Some kind of presence of something but nothing i can put my finger on, no shape form. Maybe its what they call consciousness. But it doesn’t give a feeling of identification with anything. It feels kind of boundary less & never ending.
An emptiness that you can feel or perceive in some vague way. Trying my best to put it in words but it doesn’t quite cover it.
Now wondering if even this emptiness is also in some way a form of latching on to the I...a label.
If I think back, it feels like there most likely wasn’t anything earlier too. The whole concept of ‘I me myself’ seems to have been generated by the brain/thoughts. It doesn’t feel like a separate entity that exists somewhere. It is not being experienced by the brain, it is created by the brain.
But not sure if this is an experiential learning (as its in the past) or just an understanding based on what you have written etc.
2. Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.”
The self seems like an entity on its own sitting inside our bodies somewhere and orchestrating our lives. The thing that feels the emotions, uses the brain to analyse things around and then takes decisions and steps accordingly.
I am not sure when it starts, the only idea i seem to have is from what i have read and from the interactions with you.
So i cannot call it experiential.
But it seems to be that the concept of an ‘’I’’ might have started when very young, taught as a mechanism to understand the world better and for communication. And then that got severly ingrained and became our sole and most important identity.
As I try see it now, I feel, there doesn’t seem to be any separate I’’ residing somewhere inside of me. I cant see, feel or touch it. Any sense I try to make of it seems to lead to the brain and to thoughts.
As I said earlier, there only seems to be a sense of perception, some kind of knowing, feeling...the conscious. But it doesn’t feel like an ‘’I’’, something that belongs to ‘me’. Its just something that ‘is’ probably.
3. How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
It feels right, like how its supposed to be. Feels free.
As compared to before, life just feels more relaxed. Am able to drop stress & tension faster when I think about this concept & see things for what they are.
And maybe not just in specific situations, probably a bit in general too but not too sure about it.
Not having an I doesn’t seem to change anything that happens in life.
I certainly don’t feel the fear that much anymore...of not having an I. Everything is still happening, life goes on. Reactions still happen. Emotions are felt. Actions are taken. But there is some kind of detachment. And surprisingly (in a good way) it doesn’t feel boring or lessen the joy of living. I still feel everything at the same intensity but in some way (which i cant describe) it doesn’t impact me that much.
The fear of things becoming ‘boring’ or having a ‘nothing’ experiencing life has definitely gone down.
When I apply the non I, I feel I am able to watch myself more clearly too. With some calmness and detachment. Athough there are still thoughts, they seem to be of a different quality.
And it seems like its not something i have to make myself do everytime, it is also happening naturally.
4. What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
I don’t feel i am ‘over’ yet. I still keep doubting things. Like what if this concept of ‘no I’ itself is a conditioning. The more I think about it and understand it and identify with it, the more it feels real, although it may not necessarily be so.
Its just an attitude towards life rather than anything to do with the existence or non existence of an ‘’I’’.
5. Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Decision, intention, free will, choice and control...they are all activities that are a result of some analysis of data (experiences) and some actionable on it.
The need for us to have outcomes, results and objectives out of everything around us make all these arise.
So I guess, this need of ours makes things happen. We cannot just let an experience be an experience. We need to make more out of it, take it further, build on it, label it etc.
It doesn’t change the experience, it just chalks out a future course of action and probably how the future experiences will shape up.
We are not used to being satisfied with letting the experience be an experience alone.
There is no impact on what happens in the now. We are only responsible for how we feel about it. How we react to it. And perhaps based on the reaction how we will act in order to handle future outcomes of our perception of the experience.
Whatever needs to happen will happen but yes, the brain will still need to be involved at a basic level, as an aid...not as the things charting out life for us.
As I was writing all this I kind of felt how the ‘I’ messes things up. The same thing when it happens with another, I am able to see it for what it is without being judgemental. But when the same happens to me the impact is different, much more intense & personalised. The ego, the self identification makes the brain overthink n distort the experience, amplify it to be more than what it is.
But i realise that what happens just happens and we just twist n turn it as per the story of the I that we have created,
This example gave a lot of clarity to me suddenly.
6. Anything to add?
Well, something that i feel at the end of it all...
It doesnt matter if there is an I or not...this topic is just mental exercise. Its so irrelevant. What feels important is to just be able to experience every bit of life...as it is.
And also to taste experience it in the form that we cook it up in, different shapes, flavours and stories...but while being fully aware...which is the true experience & which is the story.
But having said that.. its all still few n far between. Mostly its the I driving it all. The non I happens in spurts. I still get caught up in the story a lot. But as discussed earlier, not fighting it, just being aware.
I don’t know if my answers were coherent, in the proper order, relevant etc. I just wrote what i felt at that point. Answered the qs randomly, whichever made sense first. Some qs were a bit tough to answer as I didn’t necessarily have complete clarity on everything.
And it looks like i went on n on. Got a bit tired too, so might not have been able to translate thoughts to words properly in parts. :)
