I don't know why this feels exciting but dangerous

[s-p-a-c-e]

No, it is happening all together, John.
Leaf has dissolved, it is quieter.
What that is I can't say. A stillness.

Ok. Sleep well and we'll catch up tomorrow.

Thank you,
John

[leaf]

Morning.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Morning.

Morning! :)

So, how things? If you could describe as much as possible - just write like the wind. :)

Best wishes,
John

[leaf]

Bright, busy and flowing along. Not much time to think or reflect today...but have moments of the eyes behind, the space behind the eyes. Things happened, and a standing back as it happened. One or two moments where I didn't feel in control, and didn't need to. Got lost driving somewhere, poor sat nav, but got back on track. Listening is somewhat sharpened, and less jumping into answer or finish other peoples thought. Energetic and happy. Real listening. Curious how I want to stop and think, but if I can just start not censoring and see what is there more instantaneously Now, looking at the fingers on the keyboard.
Everything moving but still in touch with that stillness. Love the vivid colours that the light from crystal dances around the room. Shift in energy, feel alive today. Good connection. Not sure this is writing like the wind, where does that come from, there phrase no problems to solve is how it is today, now, just how it is. Lots of people with problems around me, my daughter problems with visa...no problem, how it is. My friend....blah blah blah ... no need to go on................thanks
It is wonder. I was going to say wonderful, but wonder will do.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Thank you.

If you lay the right-hand down, and then at some point, lift the hand up to eye level.

Now, who is holding it up?

Best wishes,
John

[leaf]

No one but there is tingling.

Thanks.

[s-p-a-c-e]

No one but there is tingling.

Would you say you have seen what you came here to see?

Either way, what has been seen in your own :) words?

Have a lovely evening!
John

[leaf]

Something clicked and it was just oh it can't be that simple. The simpleness of it was almost ridiculous.
Yes there are these thoughts ...but the thoughts if they are focused on what is here, what is present, then any memories, store of knowledge etc will be in relationship to direct experience of a moment by moment experience. Then the driver or controller who never existed, does not appear. That Leaf (body and mind) is here and so is everything else, it is what's happening. How I do not know. But in this mystery is what we call life. It has no meaning, it just is. I talked about untying the knot .......a lot of tightness goes into holding on to a story...holding on to a belief.. a belief in a somebody. I just saw that more as I was reflecting, and it is hard to put into words.. but if there is no controller, no self, then no one is ever born or dies!! All there ever is or ever was, is this. Strangely i can notice a different energy ,like a release, and a much more subtle experience going on. However not that anything changes life goes on. What more can be said. Can i look further for something that is not there?
Time to rest.

Good night.
Leaf

[leaf]

Thank you John. I have seen what I came for..... it doesn't feel that difficult, like Oh it is just that. Like I wrote last night the simpleness of it is almost ridiculous. I have untied the knot by resting ..Leaf will continue to play out life. Everything will continue to happen. There is complete intimacy. No great "wham bhamm!!***" OK!

[s-p-a-c-e]

Thank you John. I have seen what I came for..... it doesn't feel that difficult, like Oh it is just that. Like I wrote last night the simpleness of it is almost ridiculous. I have untied the knot by resting ..Leaf will continue to play out life. Everything will continue to happen. There is complete intimacy. No great "wham bhamm!!***" OK!

Sounds good - thank you. Now, could you share responses to the following please. I know you have covered some of it already, but for completeness...

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?


Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.


How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

With kind thanks,
John

[leaf]

Hello John, sorry to a little delayed in getting back.
To respond to whether there is a separate entity "self" ...Not at all, ever. The material form, body, comprised of matter, the elements doesn't have any permanent or inherently existing reality. Thoughts arise that this is me, my foot but the thought can't be proven. Any more than when a thought that is a table arises. It is helpful to have the label, name table, foot or Leaf but there is no one doing all this. When "I" step back from the focus on foot, table and whatever is happening, loosen and relax, the space is there. The awareness , With thought relaxed , awareness is spacious. So no entity separate from this ever.

The illusion of separate self is created by thought. It starts very early when you are young. In my case something happened that created a thought the world was wrong, there is something wrong. And then the narrative or story started and "I' started, and "i" was separate. I didn't like what happened, and I gave it an interpretation, from that point on it was "ME" defending myself against the world.And wanting thins to be the way "I" wanted them. This "person" who could control things came into being. The drama started and got developed in many ways. And in different ways over the years. The separate self wants to make itself solid and a somebody, with views and beliefs, and these are bound up with memories from the past. Seeing that there is no one there, and asking questions like..is this true now, and what is my current direct experience (mindfulness) help along the way. You can't half know something, when you absolutely see there is no one here, that is it.
And that is the difference from at the start of this dialogue. It has pointed me to looking in a way that before "thought" was constructing. It feels like I was trying too hard and looking for some magical moment, and now I can stop. Being directly asked : is there a reader of this sentence and the experience of a peace. It no longer feels like there is someone to get it wrong. As if getting "it" was a thing! It is just much quieter. No-one to blame. And the fear is not present. So there is at present calm, that is what I mean by quiet. Don't have anymore at this point to say really.
Except thanks for taking the time to share this with me.
Leaf

[s-p-a-c-e]

Thanks Leaf. Really appreciate the full reply.

Last three for response...

- What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

- Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

- Anything to add?

With kind thanks,
John

[leaf]

Hi John,
Certainly when this was started there was a habitual pattern occurring, even a clinging on, but when I got the email, which I can't find now, about be dethroned, and what would be left when the host was gone. Something moved. And as I sat in my chair...I really started to look, getting all the "what I think I know" out of the way. And this seems to happened all the time now, when I was driving my car, when I was laying in bed, when I was standing looking at some people in a crowd. It is actually difficult to put into words ...one there was nothing separate from anything else and everything was happening in this amazingness. I can not find the self in the body....that is relatively easy to see, being impermanent. Even the mind and thoughts, I find no way to take ownership of. Thoughts that are associative and linked to memory or knowledge stored in the brain,these seem to be trying to confirm that there is a "self", that there was a Leaf who is solid. Of course some of what we know and remember is useful, like knowing stepping in front of a car will not be a good idea. It helps us to navigate around this experience called Life. But I can find no evidence of a "self" making or doing the thinking/thoughts. A litmus test is :are Thoughts related to direct experience and what is happening. I notice when someone is talking about something and thoughts like "oh yes and I did that, and mine is this, I didn't like it because of what happened to me." These occur and feel like Leaf, but they are just thoughts, trying to make her presence known! And I have seen this character Leaf, as I say trying to be visible and real, identify and confirm her so called reality and identity. But there isn't anything, anymore than in a film, or a photograph of Leaf as a child.
So all the things like decision, intention, free will, choice and control. Control, when things are going well, my life is pleasant, my relationships are good, praised for achievements I (Leaf) think "I" am in control and when the opposite happens life is difficult, and illness, or anything basically I don't want...happens. I will either like my experience or not like my experience but it is not something that has anyone controlling, whether that is this so called "SELF" or even higher forces. I think of all the times I have crossed my fingers, just the same as thinking a self is in control, if you believe in a separate self, as I did, you might think that this somehow had a effect. And when it works you go ..hey ho, and when it doesn't you discreetly forget.
Choice: again when you make choices, or as I have done, based on weighing up facts and comparing it may be useful there is No "I" in control, so choices happen, it is all just happening. I stopped worrying about the "why" long ago. Like ice cream, chocolate or vanilla?? Just let choosing happen. Chocolate..ok. I could justify the choice, but in the end it is just thoughts, not a me making the choice. Same I guess with decisions, I will be faced with going to New Zealand for a holiday or not, and have the intension to go. Thoughts occur, things happen like booking plane tickets, but any managing director who is controlling or directing this is absent. Just like a washing machine it goes through the cycle of "New Zealand Holiday" and chugs away. It is like when you asked who is reading the sentence , who is holding up the arm.
Just to add that there is a sense of feeling freer.. but not even that, but I look forward to living from this no thing, and "living"
in a way that has more space. Not anything more to say right now, but happy to reflect more should you wish later.
Thanks Leaf

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Leaf,

Have just sent you a PM (private message) - the link is on the right-hand side by the username.

With best wishes,
John

[leaf]

Thanks John.