Requesting Xian or Ilona

[Alexander]

Ok, 'Darkness is happening' doesn't really make sense to me. Is this a way of speaking that you use in other practises?
It is enough just to say 'in seeing, all that can be found is darkness'.
If you say 'darkness is happening', to me that sounds like there is some sort of thing making darkness happen.
It could just be a confusion of words / understanding between us.

It seemed to me that that's all that was "happening" but I see what you mean.

Would it be more honest to say 'In the experiment, I could not find anything performing a function called 'seeing', nor could I find a body, an 'I', or an Alexander experiencing the darkness'?'
At this stage, it is enough just to be really honest and say what appears to be the case.
Saying 'there is nothing doing it' or 'there is nobody experiencing it' is a positive claim. It means you have looked into the specific location where seeing is being done and have found it to be empty (there's nobody there)'
I don't want to put 'words in your mouth', so feel free to disagree with what I am saying.
Not sure if that makes sense to you or not, but the wording can be important for your own understanding, and I'd sooner get this little area cleared up before going on.

I kind of understand what you mean. "There is nobody experiencing it" was an honest statement but what I'm hearing is that you want me to keep it relative to the exercise/specific sense that is being explored.

And i'll stay focused on the seeing more than what emotion comes up around it.

Thanks so much,

Alexander

[Xain]

It's cool Alexander.
It's very important to know what we both mean by the words we use.

You see, in this investigation the word 'happening' will be used a lot.
The assumption is that there is a person, an 'I' here that causes things to happen.

So . . .
Eyes open and close - What caused that to happen? 'I did', 'I opened and closed my eyes'.
A cup of coffee was made - What caused that to happen? 'I did', 'I went into the kitchen and made the coffee'.
If you suggest the word 'happen', I will ask you what you can find that is causing it to happen.

I kind of understand what you mean. "There is nobody experiencing it" was an honest statement but what I'm hearing is that you want me to keep it relative to the exercise/specific sense that is being explored.

The thing is, it is a positive statement. It implies that you have examined a specific location, and in that location you did not find a person.
If you suggest 'Nobody is experiencing it', I will ask you what location you went to to find this out. You must have gone to the location when experiencing is happening, and at that location you did not find a person.

If I heard a loud noise, and I asked you, 'Who is making that sound?' what would you do?
You would have to look or go to the location where the sound was coming from, and if you didn't find a person causing the sound to happen, you would say 'Nobody is making it happen'.

Locations of things happening are important to this investigation because it is assumed that the body 'I' is causing the senses to happen.
'I am seeing', 'I am feeling' etc

It can be fine just to say yes, no or don't know to many of these questions. Can you find an 'I' doing it? No, I can't.
But if you say 'Nobody is doing it', I must ask you the location you went to and did not find a person there.

Let's move on to the same exercise but with eyes open this time.
This time, you might be seeing a room, chairs, tables, maybe arms, legs, a computer screen etc.
It doesn't really matter what you can see, I will refer to whatever it is just with the phrase 'What is seen'.

1) In 'seeing', can anything be found other than 'What is seen'?
2) In 'seeing', can anything be found that is performing an action called 'seeing'?
3) Can an 'I', an Alexander or a pair of eyes be found in the seeing, or is the only thing to be found 'What is seen'?

What can you find?

Xain ♥

[Alexander]

Hi Xain,

Thanks for the explanation. I think i understand What you're saying regarding "happening" being relative to a location.

1) In 'seeing', can anything be found other than 'What is seen'?
2) In 'seeing', can anything be found that is performing an action called 'seeing'?
3) Can an 'I', an Alexander or a pair of eyes be found in the seeing, or is the only thing to be found 'What is seen'?

What can you find?

1. No
2. No
3. The only thing to be found is what is seen.

Warmest,

Alexander

[Xain]

Good - So again, an 'I' isn't found doing 'seeing'.
if we consider the phrase (or thought) 'I am seeing' . . . is the 'I' something 'real'? Or is it just a way of speaking? An idea.
Just a belief that there is something separate 'doing' the seeing, and/or witnessing what is seen (when all that is ever found is 'what is seen')?

Xain ♥

[Alexander]

The "I" in "I am seeing" is a way of speaking. It is a belief in something separate doing the seeing but there is only what is seen

Alexander

[Xain]

The "I" in "I am seeing" is a way of speaking. It is a belief in something separate doing the seeing but there is only what is seen.

Sounds good to me.

Let's go to 'hearing' now - Just focus on this one sense, and answer from what appears clear.

Just listen for a moment to the sounds around you.
Whatever the sound is, I'll just use the word 'what is heard' to represent it.

1) In 'hearing', can anything be found other than 'what is heard'?
2) In 'hearing' itself, can anything at all be found that is performing a function called 'hearing'?
3) Can an 'I', a pair of ears, a body or an Alexander be found in 'hearing', or is there just 'what is heard'?

Consider the questions - Be honest.
What do you find?

Xain ♥

[Alexander]

1) In 'hearing', can anything be found other than 'what is heard'?
2) In 'hearing' itself, can anything at all be found that is performing a function called 'hearing'?
3) Can an 'I', a pair of ears, a body or an Alexander be found in 'hearing', or is there just 'what is heard'?

Consider the questions - Be honest.
What do you find?

1. In "hearing" there is nothing else found other than what is heard.
2. No. There is nothing found that is performing the function called "hearing"
3. No "I", a pair of ears, a body or al Alexander can be found in hearing. There is just "what is heard"

"What is heard" appears. There is no intermediary.

[Xain]

Great.

Hopefully, you will see again that 'I am hearing' is only a belief there is an 'I' responsible for that sense.
Neither an 'I' or a 'body' can be found actually doing it.
Is that clear to you? If not, we can discuss it.

Let's move on to 'feeling' now.
Same sort of exercise as the rest - It's the same deal.

Place a hand on a flat surface like a table or desk.
Close your eyes (this helps to focus on just the feeling sensation itself and not get distracted by the visual sense).

Now I want you to 'go to' the sensation which we would normally refer to as 'hand on desk' and to reply from what you find.

1) In 'feeling' is there anything more than 'what is being felt'?
2) In 'feeling' are there two things to be found (a hand and a desk) or just one 'sensation'?
3) Is there a body (a hand) to be found actively performing a function called 'feeling'?
4) Can an 'I', a body, an Alexander etc be found that is doing the feeling - Or is there 'just a sensation'?
What do you find?

Again, let's say an idea or a thought appears to you which suggests 'I am feeling' - What is the 'I' in this thought?

Xain ♥

[Alexander]

Hopefully, you will see again that 'I am hearing' is only a belief there is an 'I' responsible for that sense.
Neither an 'I' or a 'body' can be found actually doing it.
Is that clear to you? If not, we can discuss it.

Yes, this feels clear to me.

1) In 'feeling' is there anything more than 'what is being felt'?
2) In 'feeling' are there two things to be found (a hand and a desk) or just one 'sensation'?
3) Is there a body (a hand) to be found actively performing a function called 'feeling'?
4) Can an 'I', a body, an Alexander etc be found that is doing the feeling - Or is there 'just a sensation'?
What do you find?

Again, let's say an idea or a thought appears to you which suggests 'I am feeling' - What is the 'I' in this thought?

1. No. there is just what is being felt
2 Just one sensation
3 No there is juts sensation
4 There is just a sensation.

The "I" in the thought "I am feeling" is an idea. It's a label added to the sensation.

Alexander

[Xain]

The "I" in the thought "I am feeling" is an idea. It's a label added to the sensation.

Yes, a label added on.
Good.

I will leave 'smell' and 'taste' out as they are weaker senses, but feel free to examine those yourself if you have the interest.
In each case, is there an 'I' performing a function called 'smelling' or 'tasting', or is the only thing to be found just 'the current smell' and 'the current taste'.

Just leaving aside thoughts and imagination for the moment, let's concentrate on the five senses together at the same time. We will examine whatever is being experienced right here and now.
Some refer to this as 'Direct Experience'. Examining the five senses directly, rather than using memory / mind / thoughts and imagination.
I will use the word 'the current experience' to sum up whatever is being experienced at this moment in time by all the senses.

1) In 'experience', can anything be found other than 'the current experience'?
2) Can anything be found that is performing a function usually called 'experiencing', or is there just 'the current experience'?
3) Is there an 'I', an Alexander, a body or anything all to be found experiencing, or is there just 'the current experience'?
(Perhaps legs, arms and hands (body parts) might be found as objects in the current experience - But remember, we are looking for something that is responsible for 'experiencing').

Xain ♥

[Alexander]

I will leave 'smell' and 'taste' out as they are weaker senses, but feel free to examine those yourself if you have the interest.
In each case, is there an 'I' performing a function called 'smelling' or 'tasting', or is the only thing to be found just 'the current smell' and 'the current taste'.

The only thing to be found is the current smell and the current taste

1) In 'experience', can anything be found other than 'the current experience'?
2) Can anything be found that is performing a function usually called 'experiencing', or is there just 'the current experience'?
3) Is there an 'I', an Alexander, a body or anything all to be found experiencing, or is there just 'the current experience'?
(Perhaps legs, arms and hands (body parts) might be found as objects in the current experience - But remember, we are looking for something that is responsible for 'experiencing').

1.Only the "current experience" is found
2. Nothing can be found to perform experiencing. there is just the current experience
3. There is just the current experience. There is no "I", Alexander or body that is responsible for experiencing. There is feeling, hearing, seeing, tasting, all without an "owner". Thoughts arise that comment on and label the experience but these thoughts are not responsible for the experience; they come after. The idea of the body being responsible for experiencing creates a separation between "the body" and "the world" where there is none.

Alexander

[Xain]

There is just the current experience. There is no "I", Alexander or body that is responsible for experiencing. There is feeling, hearing, seeing, tasting, all without an "owner". Thoughts arise that comment on and label the experience but these thoughts are not responsible for the experience; they come after. The idea of the body being responsible for experiencing creates a separation between "the body" and "the world" where there is none.

Excellent! A lovely clear response.
Very good to notice that 'thoughts arise and comment on' . . . Yes.
Thoughts suggest the separation - Thoughts suggest an 'I' or a 'body' is doing these things.
Yet, this separation can't be found when looked for.

Let's move on to choice and control now.
We believe that there is a mechanism here that controls the body 'I move my limbs' and makes choices 'I choose what do' and 'I have free-will'.

Let's look into this next.

Exercise:
As you sit there, choose one of your hands - Make a choice - Left or Right hand - It doesn't matter which one.
Then when you have made a choice, raise that hand into the air.

Now, I want you to do that as many times as you feel you need to, and each time you do examine your experience and see what answers you can give to the following questions:

1) In raising the hand into the air, can you find what is making that happen - What is making the muscles contract, and the hand move?
2) Can an 'I', an Alexander or a body be found that is making that happen?

Take an honest look - What do you feel is going on?
And then, of course - What do you think to the idea or thought 'I am moving my hand'?
Is it possible that the hand is not being controlled? That the movement is simply 'happening'?

Xain ♥

[Alexander]

1) In raising the hand into the air, can you find what is making that happen - What is making the muscles contract, and the hand move?
2) Can an 'I', an Alexander or a body be found that is making that happen?

1. I can't find anything making the muscles contract and the hand move.
2. There is no "I" that is making it happen, No Alexander, and no body.that is making it happen

Take an honest look - What do you feel is going on?
And then, of course - What do you think to the idea or thought 'I am moving my hand'?
Is it possible that the hand is not being controlled? That the movement is simply 'happening'?

I read your instruction to raise an arm. Instantaneously it is done. Without thought or instruction from an "I" There's a focus to find what is making it happen and a repetitive raising of the arm. It happens without anything controlling it. It's a mystery. It seems to follow thought sometimes but again it is thought owning or labelling the process.

"I am moving my hand" is a label or commentary on what is just happening

It is that the hand is not being controlled. The movement is simply "happening"

Alexander

[Xain]

It is that the hand is not being controlled. The movement is simply "happening"

Yes.

It seems to follow thought sometimes but again it is thought owning or labelling the process.

Yes.
Sometimes thought or 'focus' appears to be there, but as you realise it isn't a factor in making it happen.
Indeed, imagine driving a car and needing a separate thought or focus every time you wanted to gear change or move the steering wheel.
Sometimes car journeys are made so automatically, we can't even remember it fully when we arrive at the destination.

Ok, now we do exactly the same exercise as we did before but with 'choice' as something to be inquired upon.

1) In choosing the hand (left or right), can you find what is making the choice happen - What is choosing? What is making the choice?
2) Can an 'I', an Alexander or a body be found that is making the choice?

Take an honest look - What do you feel is going on?
And then, of course - What do you think to the idea or phrase 'I am choosing'?
Is it possible that there is no 'real' choice being made? That (as in the previous inquiry), left or right is 'simply happening'?

Xain ♥

[Alexander]

1) In choosing the hand (left or right), can you find what is making the choice happen - What is choosing? What is making the choice?
2) Can an 'I', an Alexander or a body be found that is making the choice?

Take an honest look - What do you feel is going on?
And then, of course - What do you think to the idea or phrase 'I am choosing'?
Is it possible that there is no 'real' choice being made? That (as in the previous inquiry), left or right is 'simply happening'?

1. I can't find anything that is making the choice happen. There is nothing choosing.There isn't anything making the choice.
2. There is no "I", Alexander or a body making the choice.

I feel that an arm moves without a "choice" or "chooser".
"I am choosing" is a commentary distinct from the arm simply moving.
It is possible no real choice is being made. There is a habitual self that claims to have control, that believes it is choosing the left or right hand but left or right simply happens and the commentary/ownership is not necessary. Yes, left or right is "simply happening"

Alexander