Please nudge me through the gate

[Joyce]

Hi Linda,

Thanks - will need a few days for this.

Love to you

Joyce xx

[Joyce]

Hi Linda,

How is this known? What evidence do you have that sensations are dependent on a body? This is one of the items we can explore a bit, if you like, in another section of the forum once we are finished here.

Yes please

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

No

Was there ever?

No

Explain in detail, as best you can, in your own words, even if fumblingly, what the illusion of separate self is, how it starts and works from your own experience.

There is a memory of being called ‘Joyce’ by others from an early age and being given material things that belonged to ‘Joyce’ and ‘Joyce’ achieved things at school etc etc. Thoughts came about how well ‘Joyce’ was doing in life or how badly things were going for ‘Joyce’ and there was never any question from ‘Joyce’ or others around her that ‘Joyce’ was anything other than a separate self and this thought became strongly believed in. Actually that is not quite true – there was always an awareness of something in the background of ‘Joyce’ but this was not focused on until ‘Joyce’ became very unhappy after a long term relationship break up. At this point ‘Joyce’ began to read spiritual teachers and go to retreat in an attempt to relieve suffering. This was all about 9 years ago.

Describe it fully as you see it now.

Today and particularly after this guidance from you Linda there is complete clarity that there is no separate self and that experience consists of the five senses and thoughts that arise either seemingly from nowhere or as commentary on what is taking place – including the thoughts of ‘Joyce’. The thoughts are seen as not being direct experience. It is noticed that some thoughts have a very strong pull in that they are difficult not to believe in and this is an area where further exploration would be welcomed.

How does it feel to see this?

It feels wonderful, joyful and liberating to see this – incredible aliveness.

What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?

The knowing that the separate self is an illusion is known much more deeply and there is clear awareness of the difference between thoughts and direct experience through the senses.

Please report from the past few days.

In the past few days there has been a strong pull from thoughts which come up commentating on activities around renewed contact with another. This pull which manifests as feeling of pain in the torso and is labelled as the fear of potential rejection has been welcomed and held as encouraged by you and this has decreased the amount of suffering which would have occurred in such a circumstance in the past.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The process created intense focus on experience being through the five senses and the odd thought which arises and which has no direct experience associated with it. This focus intensified when thoughts which had a strong pull arose. No specific 'bit' just constant returning to direct experience under guidance.

Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life?

No

Do you make anything happen?

No

Please try to describe the process as best you can, even if gropingly. Don't forget to give some practical examples from your everyday experience (even if there is no real 'you'!)

Events just unfold. For example today out with friends we ended up having lunch together at a beautiful pub by the river. We were hungry and the car just turned into the pub car park. Last week I was with a friend and ended up meeting dear friends we had in common from several years ago. They were just there at the meeting we went to.

What are you responsible for?

Nothing it all just unfolds.

Anything you would like to add?

Yes there was a call yesterday evening with someone and the thought label came about being rejected. It was difficult not to let this thought be compounded by other thoughts and it was welcomed as something to be friends with and care for. There was a strong sensation in the body of pain which the thought wanted to label as the pain of possible rejection. After about an hour there was a realisation that these are just thoughts. Quotes from recent dialogues below were very helpful. Would be good to explore this process more.

Sure. You have spent xx years forming societal beliefs, assumptions, concepts, theories and expectations. These thought patterns can be tough little critters to ferret out. Seeing through the illusion of a separate self is one of the HUGE beliefs, and other beliefs depend on this illusion to operate properly. So once the illusion of a separate self is seen through, other beliefs will most likely start being recognized, and so exploring continues. For this reason, we have some post-gate groups, where support and further exploration is available. You and I can also continue to explore together at that time, in a different section of the forum, if you prefer a one on one setting.

Sure. Again, it is normal that it can feel like a strong pull at times to get involved with thoughts. We have lived many years believing the content of thoughts, haven't we? So it can take some time changing the focus from thought content to actual experience. Exploring doesn't stop once the illusion of a separate self is seen through. It some ways, it just begins ;-).

This is completely understandable, Joyce. The body is used to responding to these types of experiences in a certain manner, sort of like a neuronal pattern. When this experience comes up, it is an invitation to take another look at what is actually happening. With continued looking, it may be noticed how little ‘mental suffering’ is generated from these experiences.

There is a thought that has come up regularly through this process wanting to say that this process does not look at what some might call Spirit, Universe i.e. that which is prior to everything including direct experience. It would be good to explore this more too.

Much love and gratitude as ever to you Linda.


Joyce xx

[LindaR]

Hi Joyce,
Beautiful!

There is a thought that has come up regularly through this process wanting to say that this process does not look at what some might call Spirit, Universe i.e. that which is prior to everything including direct experience. It would be good to explore this more too.

Sure, this forum is specifically designed to point until it is undeniably seen that no separate self can be found to exist. It is just the beginning of exploring BUT a VERY significant beginning .

Okay, I am going to have a few other guides take a peek at this thread to see if they have any further questions for you. So, I will come back shortly with either more questions or the next steps.

Big hug,
Linda

[Joyce]

Thanks Linda,

Very significant beginning indeed. Look forward to hearing back in due course.

Much love and thanks

Joyce.

[LindaR]

Hi Joyce,
There are no further questions from the other guides. Really great job looking! I will send you a private message shortly with the next steps. :-)

Big hug,
Linda

[Joyce]

Thanks for letting me know Linda.

Big hug and love back

Joyce xx

[LindaR]

Joyce, do you know how to retrieve a private message on the forum? If not, you will see 'Private Message' right next to your username in the upper right hand corner. Just click on that and it will bring your message up. xx