Yes, of course. I is a thought. Every single time "I" and "me" pop up in this head, they are thoughts. Yes, I see that. I have to really look straight at it to see it. It is hard to let go of that last remaining little I-thought, I have been clinging to it.
I was actually thinking about clouds yesterday. How obvious it is that no controller causes them to move across the sky. No controller in the cloud, no controller in the sky. They just move, beautifully across the sky.
There is no need for an I. I have noticed this without noticing. Everything is already perfect. But lots of thinking about it pops up, like fear and thoughts about how I could ever see past that last feeling of being an I.
Need to look, not to think!
Typing fingers on keyboard. Who is typing? Where do the words come from? I am seeing the letters on the screen. This is a thought. I am… is a thought. Typing and seeing is ... just typing and seeing.
There is the beginning of seeing something fresh tonight, some slow shift going on. Time and time again looking at this I, seeing it as a thought, trying to see what is really there. Loosening the hold. When I look at others, it is easier to see the illusion.
Okey, so this I that comes with every thought, is just that, a thought.. But what I wonder then, is what is behind, how come there is an awareness of the thoughts?
who else wants to find an exit sign?
who else wants to find an exit sign?
Yes, you are getting it. It's happening. :)
Awareness, ha. Ok, look at awareness as a space in which experience is happening. Thoughts are experience too. They are not outside of all. They are like subtitles to senses, feelings, and thoughts themselves. Like a non stop story. Of course story does not stop, it carries on as it always did. And Lianna is playing her part perfectly.
What is behind the thought?
Take a peak.
Look at thought itself. Ask it to come closer and closer and take a peek behind. You can try that with a feeling too. See what is behind. Just out of curiosity.
I thought is just part of language. It is not what holds illusion. Identification is. Seeing I thought for what it is = seeing through illusion of separate entity.
Looking forward to you answer.
Sending love.
Awareness, ha. Ok, look at awareness as a space in which experience is happening. Thoughts are experience too. They are not outside of all. They are like subtitles to senses, feelings, and thoughts themselves. Like a non stop story. Of course story does not stop, it carries on as it always did. And Lianna is playing her part perfectly.
What is behind the thought?
Take a peak.
Look at thought itself. Ask it to come closer and closer and take a peek behind. You can try that with a feeling too. See what is behind. Just out of curiosity.
I thought is just part of language. It is not what holds illusion. Identification is. Seeing I thought for what it is = seeing through illusion of separate entity.
Looking forward to you answer.
Sending love.
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
Re: who else wants to find an exit sign?
Thank you, Ilona. Really happy with this! :)
I feel a bit shaken at the moment, just saw something for the first time. Like something irrevocable happened. Sensation of a hole in my stomach, a weird feeling of realness, a bit like the feelings I hadfor example when my father died (oddly enough).
Trying to look at this awareness, as you asked me. Really liked your description of thoughts a subtitles, by the way! Anyway, thinking, looking, reading other posts. Found a bit i Garsius Tyla's ongoing one-to-one with Microsomix, that I wanted to try. This is how it went:
Perceiver->perceiving->perceived. Right?
Perceived, or objects of perceiving: table, keyboard, hand, body, vibration in the body, thought, mood, emotion, feeling, senses. That is not you. Observe all that.
Yes, this bit is clear. Can observe all of this, including emotions, thoughts, even the I-thought, I-feeling.
Perceiving, or awareness, consciousness, attention of all objects mentioned above. That is not you. Look at your perceiving. Raise both hands, look at one, but keep your awareness on another. So you can perceive even your perceiving, right?
YES! This is also true. This is a new insight. I have known, but I have not really seen that even awareness, attention, is observed. I try this hand-thing, and first I was just happy to be able to do it, but then I got it. Observing awareness. So I am not awareness either. I am NOT even awareness. Is this true? This is what I see. I am very moved when ”I” see this, like a new space i created that has not been seen before.
Perceiver - can you find that one? Don't think, but try to turn your attention to that entity which SHOULD be there as a perceiver. Can you see that there is no perceiver?
Not thinking, just looking. And there is no one there. No one! Noting. I cry when I see this. No one there. No entity. Feel like I am falling, or I don't know.
What does that mean then? All this searching, and then nothing. What does that mean?
But this is true. I see no one there. So be it. No perceiver.
All this that is going on: table, hands on keyboard, subtitles of thoughts running almost all the time, feeling of sadness-happiness, the I-thought, the story of Lianna, even the awareness of it all, is hanging loose. All this moving, like clouds across the sky, perceived by, well, no one.
What does that mean? Thought: Is this really true? It is so radical.
It doesn't matter what I think, truth is truth anyway. I wanted the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, no matter what! s the find: nothing, then? Well, it's great! But also scary! Like the end of a world. (Which is funny, by the way, since they say that today is the first day outside the Mayan calender, and I really don't believe in the theories of the-end-of-the world.)
You wrote:
I thought is just part of language. It is not what holds illusion. Identification is. Seeing I thought for what it is = seeing through illusion of separate entity.
Yes, true. The I-thought is nothing but a thought. But identification, who is identifying then? Identification is also something that can be observed. There is no other ”me” that is identifying with this Lianna-me. No other, deeper level of "me" to find. Seeing through illusion of separate entity, now it feels more like it is seeing through illusion of any entity what so ever.
I am happy in a way, but still I feel like I want to type - HELP!
I feel a bit shaken at the moment, just saw something for the first time. Like something irrevocable happened. Sensation of a hole in my stomach, a weird feeling of realness, a bit like the feelings I hadfor example when my father died (oddly enough).
Trying to look at this awareness, as you asked me. Really liked your description of thoughts a subtitles, by the way! Anyway, thinking, looking, reading other posts. Found a bit i Garsius Tyla's ongoing one-to-one with Microsomix, that I wanted to try. This is how it went:
Perceiver->perceiving->perceived. Right?
Perceived, or objects of perceiving: table, keyboard, hand, body, vibration in the body, thought, mood, emotion, feeling, senses. That is not you. Observe all that.
Yes, this bit is clear. Can observe all of this, including emotions, thoughts, even the I-thought, I-feeling.
Perceiving, or awareness, consciousness, attention of all objects mentioned above. That is not you. Look at your perceiving. Raise both hands, look at one, but keep your awareness on another. So you can perceive even your perceiving, right?
YES! This is also true. This is a new insight. I have known, but I have not really seen that even awareness, attention, is observed. I try this hand-thing, and first I was just happy to be able to do it, but then I got it. Observing awareness. So I am not awareness either. I am NOT even awareness. Is this true? This is what I see. I am very moved when ”I” see this, like a new space i created that has not been seen before.
Perceiver - can you find that one? Don't think, but try to turn your attention to that entity which SHOULD be there as a perceiver. Can you see that there is no perceiver?
Not thinking, just looking. And there is no one there. No one! Noting. I cry when I see this. No one there. No entity. Feel like I am falling, or I don't know.
What does that mean then? All this searching, and then nothing. What does that mean?
But this is true. I see no one there. So be it. No perceiver.
All this that is going on: table, hands on keyboard, subtitles of thoughts running almost all the time, feeling of sadness-happiness, the I-thought, the story of Lianna, even the awareness of it all, is hanging loose. All this moving, like clouds across the sky, perceived by, well, no one.
What does that mean? Thought: Is this really true? It is so radical.
It doesn't matter what I think, truth is truth anyway. I wanted the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, no matter what! s the find: nothing, then? Well, it's great! But also scary! Like the end of a world. (Which is funny, by the way, since they say that today is the first day outside the Mayan calender, and I really don't believe in the theories of the-end-of-the world.)
You wrote:
I thought is just part of language. It is not what holds illusion. Identification is. Seeing I thought for what it is = seeing through illusion of separate entity.
Yes, true. The I-thought is nothing but a thought. But identification, who is identifying then? Identification is also something that can be observed. There is no other ”me” that is identifying with this Lianna-me. No other, deeper level of "me" to find. Seeing through illusion of separate entity, now it feels more like it is seeing through illusion of any entity what so ever.
I am happy in a way, but still I feel like I want to type - HELP!
Re: who else wants to find an exit sign?
yes, you got it. there is no one here....
Is there a who/what to identify with anything? can it be that identification is also just happening as a part of whole?
what does it mean? look around at people, at nature, is there a manager of any kind?
is there a separate entity at all in real life? was there ever?
tell me what is real?
much love!
Is there a who/what to identify with anything? can it be that identification is also just happening as a part of whole?
exactly. very unticlimatic. very simple...What does that mean then? All this searching, and then nothing. What does that mean?
But this is true. I see no one there. So be it. No perceiver.
what does it mean? look around at people, at nature, is there a manager of any kind?
is there a separate entity at all in real life? was there ever?
tell me what is real?
much love!
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
Re: who else wants to find an exit sign?
New day. Everything is normal, and still... something shifted yesterday, a very gentle shift. And it has not shifted back during the night, it has not been lost. Things move on as usual, and yet not quite. Is this it? This small shift, this gentle change, this normal Sunday life going on?
So what is real then? Ha! Computer on legs,feeling of elation, fingers moving quickly on keyboard, words on screen, cat on the windowsill, sounds from the freezer defrosting, thoughts, seeing of light grey sky through the window, trying to type the words right, thoughts subtitling it all.
This is nothing big at all. It is so simple. Crying a little again, feeling happy, sad, afraid, hopeful.
It is quite clear now that there is no one, no thing to identify with anything, and that identification is also just happening, just as everything else. Obvious now, could not be any other way.Is there a who/what to identify with anything? can it be that identification is also just happening as a part of whole?
No! There is no separate entity at all, and of course there never was one.is there a separate entity at all in real life? was there ever?
tell me what is real?
So what is real then? Ha! Computer on legs,feeling of elation, fingers moving quickly on keyboard, words on screen, cat on the windowsill, sounds from the freezer defrosting, thoughts, seeing of light grey sky through the window, trying to type the words right, thoughts subtitling it all.
This is nothing big at all. It is so simple. Crying a little again, feeling happy, sad, afraid, hopeful.
who else wants to find an exit sign?
Aaaa! Yes, it's that simple.
I see that shift has happened. :)
I'll ask you a few questions now, answer in full, as you see.
What is the 'sel'f and how does it work?
How would you describe this to a friend who has never heard of this before?
What was that last push?
How does it feel to be liberated?
Just give us a nice long rant here.
Sending love!
I see that shift has happened. :)
I'll ask you a few questions now, answer in full, as you see.
What is the 'sel'f and how does it work?
How would you describe this to a friend who has never heard of this before?
What was that last push?
How does it feel to be liberated?
Just give us a nice long rant here.
Sending love!
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
Re: who else wants to find an exit sign?
This morning, or already yesterday evening, I began to think that I had lost it again. Things seemed so back to normal, even if an unusually happy and light normal. One of my expectations was that I would know for certain when the shift had happened. And I did know when it happened, but not as sure now.
Of course these doubts are just thoughts, moving through.
Thoughts of how it couldn't really be this simple, not just this tiny little detail that tipped it. And also - how could it be that quick? Just a week of corresponding in a forum…
Somehow that is really funny, though! All those years of looking for something that was presumed to be really difficult to find, that would take years or lifetimes of meditation and sucking up to some guru. Haha, I knew that there was something not quite right with that approach. Great!
Anyway, I will answer your questions a little later, maybe tomorrow. Need to take some time for that, let it settle a bit. At the moment I am at work, and I feel really happy and light.
Thank you so much. Lots of love to you, Ilona!
Of course these doubts are just thoughts, moving through.
Thoughts of how it couldn't really be this simple, not just this tiny little detail that tipped it. And also - how could it be that quick? Just a week of corresponding in a forum…
Somehow that is really funny, though! All those years of looking for something that was presumed to be really difficult to find, that would take years or lifetimes of meditation and sucking up to some guru. Haha, I knew that there was something not quite right with that approach. Great!
Anyway, I will answer your questions a little later, maybe tomorrow. Need to take some time for that, let it settle a bit. At the moment I am at work, and I feel really happy and light.
Thank you so much. Lots of love to you, Ilona!
who else wants to find an exit sign?
Dear Lianna, take your time, settle in. It might be difficult for the mind to accept that it is that simple, so it starts to create all kinds of doubt and rationalise why one week of conversation should not be enough.
And shift is subtle, so subtle, that you may not notice it at all. All is as it is already, nothing changes because the belief is exposed and dropped. But the lightness of being and end of search is evident.
And shift is subtle, so subtle, that you may not notice it at all. All is as it is already, nothing changes because the belief is exposed and dropped. But the lightness of being and end of search is evident.
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
Re: who else wants to find an exit sign?
Good morning! Here is a long rant. Not sure if I actually answered all your questions, but it was fun to write anyway.
Once upon a time there was a little baby girl, her loving parents named her Lianna (or Lena, actually), and told her that was her name. They taught her that she was her own separate little being in a big world, just like they were separate bigger beings, mom and dad. All the big people around her told the same story and smiled at her. She was eager to please and quick to learn, and she believed them, so she started to look at herself as a separate little person in a very small body. In there she built and built on her image of herself based on what she had been taught. Thoughts, memories, actions, bodily attributes helped formed what she began to think about as “herself”. And soon enough she was totally convinced that she really was Lena, all alone in the world, and responsible for her own choices in life.
Only, somewhere inside, there was a lingering feeling, that something was wrong, that something had been overlooked. A feeling that she needed to find something she had lost, that she really needed to see the truth, no matter how radical that truth might be.
And then one day, after much searching, she stumbled on a site on the internet, where she could get just the right help to actually look and look again at what was true. And for the first time she saw, that there was really no proof for the existence of this self she had so long believed in. There was only this self-label that had been put on a bunch of things relating to this body and its story. This self was nothing but an imaginary character in a story.
How weird and wonderful!
And maybe I would relate the belief in a separate self to other imaginary characters that many people believe in (like angels, God, Satan), or maybe draw a parallel to the animistic beliefs where trees, and rocks and the earth itself I believed to be spiritual beings.
I would tell her to push away all old believes and really look for what is true. And if she was interested, I would show her the way to this site.
This morning there were lots of thoughts about different things as normal, for example thoughts about a big row I had with my son yesterday. And again doubts about if liberation really has happened. But I see that they are all just thoughts: about my son, about the row we had, about mistakes “I” made, about doubts of liberation, about searching for that feeling of “wow”, about calming down, about the trees and the chill in the air, about what to write here.
And in a way I suppose nothing has changed at all. Before there were lots of thoughts and stuff happening, life going on. And there are still lots of thoughts and stuff happening, life going on. Some change in content of thoughts now, in beliefs about the I-thought first of all. But everything has always been just as it is, moving, happening, flowing.
Let me tell you a story.What is the self and how does it work?
Once upon a time there was a little baby girl, her loving parents named her Lianna (or Lena, actually), and told her that was her name. They taught her that she was her own separate little being in a big world, just like they were separate bigger beings, mom and dad. All the big people around her told the same story and smiled at her. She was eager to please and quick to learn, and she believed them, so she started to look at herself as a separate little person in a very small body. In there she built and built on her image of herself based on what she had been taught. Thoughts, memories, actions, bodily attributes helped formed what she began to think about as “herself”. And soon enough she was totally convinced that she really was Lena, all alone in the world, and responsible for her own choices in life.
Only, somewhere inside, there was a lingering feeling, that something was wrong, that something had been overlooked. A feeling that she needed to find something she had lost, that she really needed to see the truth, no matter how radical that truth might be.
And then one day, after much searching, she stumbled on a site on the internet, where she could get just the right help to actually look and look again at what was true. And for the first time she saw, that there was really no proof for the existence of this self she had so long believed in. There was only this self-label that had been put on a bunch of things relating to this body and its story. This self was nothing but an imaginary character in a story.
How weird and wonderful!
It depends on the friend. I would not push this onto someone who doesn't want to hear it. But say that it was somebody who wanted to know... maybe I would try to tell her the story above, in one form or another, probably anoother.How would you describe this to a friend who has never heard of this before?
And maybe I would relate the belief in a separate self to other imaginary characters that many people believe in (like angels, God, Satan), or maybe draw a parallel to the animistic beliefs where trees, and rocks and the earth itself I believed to be spiritual beings.
I would tell her to push away all old believes and really look for what is true. And if she was interested, I would show her the way to this site.
When I realized that even the awareness/attention is observed. I had missed that little detail up until then. I had some idea that awareness what was I was looking for. And for some reason when I got that it is not, it was easy to see that no one was observing at all.What was that last push?
I am not sure yet. So far, it feels surprisingly normal. A little bit lighter, to see that I am not this person responsible for everything, I am not this “I” that has to take the blame and feel the shame for mistakes, or to take the credit for things gone right. Life is just happening and flowing. The thoughts of me and mine are still here, of course. But now they can be seen as thoughts, at least most of the time.How does it feel to be liberated?
This morning there were lots of thoughts about different things as normal, for example thoughts about a big row I had with my son yesterday. And again doubts about if liberation really has happened. But I see that they are all just thoughts: about my son, about the row we had, about mistakes “I” made, about doubts of liberation, about searching for that feeling of “wow”, about calming down, about the trees and the chill in the air, about what to write here.
And in a way I suppose nothing has changed at all. Before there were lots of thoughts and stuff happening, life going on. And there are still lots of thoughts and stuff happening, life going on. Some change in content of thoughts now, in beliefs about the I-thought first of all. But everything has always been just as it is, moving, happening, flowing.
Re: who else wants to find an exit sign?
i see that you have made it through. i'm so delighted for you and i'm really looking forward to meet you in our facebook groups. do you have an account already?
thank you very much!
thank you very much!
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
Re: who else wants to find an exit sign?
Ilona, thank you so much for taking your time to do this with me and so many others!
You are doing such great work here, I can hardly find words for it.
This was really what I needed.
I have been on so many retreats, with quite a few gurus, I have read so many books. And it all felt very important and groundbreaking at the time, and I had insights and aha-moments.
But nothing has forced me to look so steadily at what is actually true, as you have here. This very sharp focus on exactly this was what I needed. And it was really really helpful, to be asked to look and look again, and to really engage in answering the question truthfully, and to trust that this would work.
I do have a FB-account, and would like to join the aftercare-group. How do I go about that?
You are doing such great work here, I can hardly find words for it.
This was really what I needed.
I have been on so many retreats, with quite a few gurus, I have read so many books. And it all felt very important and groundbreaking at the time, and I had insights and aha-moments.
But nothing has forced me to look so steadily at what is actually true, as you have here. This very sharp focus on exactly this was what I needed. And it was really really helpful, to be asked to look and look again, and to really engage in answering the question truthfully, and to trust that this would work.
I do have a FB-account, and would like to join the aftercare-group. How do I go about that?
Re: who else wants to find an exit sign?
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001758165632
this is my facebook account, friend me and i will invite you to Unleashed. :)
see you on the other side!
this is my facebook account, friend me and i will invite you to Unleashed. :)
see you on the other side!
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
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