Request for Ghata

[Dhammapala]

I don't even have any control over my own body, or its physical processes, or even over my own thoughts and emotions, which ironically I call Me....so control is an illusion. Anything can happen, any time....

[Ghata]

Thank you for answering all the questions. :-)

I have a few questions to your answers, let's go through your answers one by one. Answer in your own words, please. No Dhamma talk :-)

1)

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'ME,' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, there isn't. There are forms, shapes, colours, sounds, tastes etc - but none of them has a self essence. None of them ever did.

Right, none of the experiences has any self essence.

This question isn't exactly about the self essence of experiences.

It means, is there any separate entity that usually is called "ME", "I" or "self", that thinks thoughts, acts, decides, controls, feels, moves the body, experiences sensations. Is there such an entity in any form or shape? Was there ever?


Sending love.

[Dhammapala]

Oh, sorry, I ran off at a slight tangent....

When I look within I only see thoughts, images, feelings in the body. But that's all they are - experiences coming and going. Any thought I could possibly have that looks like it could be Me is just that - a passing thought. There are just thoughts, feelings, sensations - but no owner, no guiding self.

Unexamined, it seemed obvious there was - but that's just habitual attachment to an idea....

[Ghata]

Thank you :)

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The separate self is a creation of my thought, the little images of "Dhammapala" in my head that have gone unexamined for so long.

How do thoughts create something?

It's the idea that I am a limited small fragment of being "in here" versus a huge world "out there". In fact the world and I interpenetrate, we're not separate, no inside and outside beyond what I label as "this is here" and "that is there", " this is mine" and "this is not mine". In fact it's all "mine" and none of it is "mine".

Describe the experience of this, using an example.

Living from this vision allows me to become intimate with the world and feel at home there, because it's all participating in me. It's not that the world doesnt exist - it does, just as I do. But the problem arises when I solidify my dance with the living world into Me and It.

Who could become intimate with the world and feel at home there?

Whose dance is it?

In which way do you exist?

Again, look into direct experience. Don't use words you read or heard to describe the experience. Your words say it much better.

Sending love.

[Dhammapala]

Thank you :)

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The separate self is a creation of my thought, the little images of "Dhammapala" in my head that have gone unexamined for so long.


How do thoughts create something?


They don't... It's that they arise and are then mistaken for a self out of habit. Ignorance, grasping latches on to them and unexamined assumptions seem to see a self where there isn't one. Mindfulness, investigation looks and sees no self - just thoughts.




It's the idea that I am a limited small fragment of being "in here" versus a huge world "out there". In fact the world and I interpenetrate, we're not separate, no inside and outside beyond what I label as "this is here" and "that is there", " this is mine" and "this is not mine". In fact it's all "mine" and none of it is "mine".

Describe the experience of this, using an example.

It's like a sensual experience...when I allow the sense of "in here" versus "over there" to drop, it's like we meet without a break, seamlessly. There's no division - inside and out are thought created, so it becomes a sensual feeling - not sexy, but intimate. An example is the room I'm in now - it's present as experience, not MY experience, but just experience arising, and there's no I seeing It - there's just union with the room - and it's intimete, inseparable from "me" (no me) because there's no me and no it - it is me, I am it.... Words are inherently dualistic.





Living from this vision allows me to become intimate with the world and feel at home there, because it's all participating in me. It's not that the world doesnt exist - it does, just as I do. But the problem arises when I solidify my dance with the living world into Me and It.

Who could become intimate with the world and feel at home there?

Whose dance is it?

In which way do you exist?

Again, look into direct experience. Don't use words you read or heard to describe the experience. Your words say it much better.



No no! Those aren't words I've read in a book - they are words that come up for me in describing this! It's not about MY dance - it's just dance. I'm trying to get across an experience of union but words are dualistic. I exist in the sense that I'm not nothing, a zombie. There is knowing of whats arising and happening. There is knowing that this is red and that is blue - but also knowing that those are just labels, and had english been different the words would have been different. There is knowing of thoughts and sensations, and they are thoughts and sensations here for me, not for you. To that extent I exist - but this existence is just relative - behind it or within it all there is a great silence, peace, purity.

Sending love.

[Ghata]

Beautiful, Dhammapala :-)

4)

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

You guiding me. When you said I was in a heightened state on June 21st, it was true. It felt like my usual mental activity had been somehow quietened - not deeply, but it felt a bit like something was happening somehow.

Do you recall a certain moment when the seeing happened? If you do, was there something that sort of triggered that seeing? A situation or one of the questions for example?

Sending love.

P.S. The quote function works by marking what I said (after you pasted it into the reply window) and then pressing "quote" in the row above the the reply window.

[Dhammapala]

There wasn't a strong trigger but I felt the atmosphere thickening ("heightened state") during this email:

Ghata: Are YOU awareness?

Dh: No, definitely not...there is awareness, but its name isn't Dhammapala, or any other name. It's just knowing...


Ghata: Choices are made, sure. As you saw very clearly, they are made according to conditions that are out of your control and even before you become aware of them.

Dh: Yes - so therefore what I can claim as "mine" is....nothing! EVERYTHING is the result of causes and conditions, even my very body and mind and thoughts and choices .... And it's all just labelled by a mind that thinks it knows everything! Hahahahahaaaaa!

Ghata: Does the ME exist the same way a computer exists?

Dh: No...it's just a thought....how could it be anything other? We're just enmeshed in thoughts...the Me is just another one....


Ghata: Can it do something the same way the computer can do something? Or will the ME forever be a thought only?

Dh: It's a thought - but one that can kill someone else....it may be a delusion, but it's one that can have an effect...

[Ghata]

I smiled when I read it then and I am smiling again :-).

Thank you, Dhammapala.There are no more questions from my side.

I will ask some other guides now to have a look whether we covered everything. If somebody has a question, I will post it here.

Sending love.

[Ghata]

Hi Dhammapala,

two questions came in. They are referring to something you said earlier:

Can a thought kill?

Is it possible to see a thought creating an effect?


Sending love.

[Dhammapala]

(I can't yet get the quote function to work - I'll play with it a bit more).


Can a thought kill?

No, it's just a thought, it can do nothing. But....



Is it possible to see a thought creating an effect?

...if solid separate self *believes* the thoughts or perceptions, is enmeshed in them as real and attaches to them as a true reflection of how a situation is, then self-based emotions will arise which have a more or less strong body-based feeling tone which is either pleasant or unpleasant, and this will prompt action. But it's NOT the thought by itself creating the effect, it's the thought being believed in that starts the chain reaction. Believing our perceptions and attaching to them is what makes us delusional. If we stop believing in our thoughts and perceptions, we are free. Belief in the thought of Me is the strongest of them all, and all our endless exhausting activity arises from defending or protecting or promoting this Me. Give it up already!

[Ghata]

Hi Dhammapala,

thank you for your answer. I will pass it on.

I've got a question to your answer :-)

...if solid separate self *believes* the thoughts or perceptions,

Is there somethng like a solid separate self? What does it consist of?


And another question came in:

"There is knowing of thoughts and sensations, and they are thoughts and sensations here for me, not for you. To that extent I exist - but this existence is just relative - behind it or within it all there is a great silence, peace, purity."

If possible go sit in a park or anywhere in nature and notice all the happenings around you. Then tell us if you are actually experiencing for 'you'? Or is there just experiencing? If the experience is for your', can you explain who/what this is?


Sending love.

[Dhammapala]

No! But the point I was making is that a strong habit of grasping to a solid separate self happens that makes it feel like it really exists. But it's just that this powerful thought has gone unexamined.

The second question: again, it's not "me". There is no Me looking, hearing - there is just looking, hearing, knowing - without it being Dhammapala. But hearing and seeing are happening in *this* dimension of knowing rather than say Ghata's. Does that make more sense? I'm not advanced enough to enter anyone else's dimension and know as they know, so to that degree there still seems to be this dimension of knowing rather than Ghata's. Perhaps much deeper seeing will involve the realisation that there are no "other" people - but I don't know what that would look like.

[Ghata]

Hi Dhammapala,

everything is fine, welcome home :-).

I will send you a pm on Facebook.


Lots of love.