Seeing the Truth

[Riker]

There is a me that can get enlightened... Me as in all of my experience including what most people would clasify as not me.

I guess it would look like a recognition of what is in the present moment, an acceptance, a unity, a peace, and even a wonder of it. I guess the opposite of these things... Would be illusions... But they are lived as real things so what's the difference? I guess the difference is that once you know it's an illusion you can escape the hell of the illusion, not by escaping anything really but seeing it as fake. I wonder if I could hold on to this paradigm if a murderer was about to kill me... If I could realize it's just another expression of the universe or if I would freak out. Who knows hehe

Nothing is disconnected from being... It just seems that way.

Sometimes I feel less aware, like when I feel like I'm distracted or in fantasy land and I'm not mindful of my actions.

I don't need to do anything to be, or survive... But I think it helps to pay attention to become more aware of the awareness, to be more the being... I have the impression it will bring a happier life.

I don't do being... I just realize it's truth... Or I guess it just realizes it's truth since I'm not really here.

[Ilona]

ha nice! good to notice that you dont need to do anything in order to be!

you say

Me as in all of my experience

what is this me? a container? a box? an experiencer? a label? is it an owner of experience?
what is that claims experience to be MINE?
is the voice in the head the ME?

examine this closely and find that ghost in the machine :)

sending love.

[Riker]

:) yea thank god hehe

This me is everything, if it's percieved or experienced or whatever that's it. It does contain everything.

Yes it's just a label really, something used in order to comunicate... I guess when you ask if there's a me that can be enlightened I can say that there is no me, just enlightment happening all the time. Weird to think of it that way... Cause what are we really doing here then? Heh

Yes there's a voice in my head that claims this is happening to me. It's useful to communicate since without it I would say for example "happiness for you" or "happiness for you is being experienced" instead of "I'm happy for you" .

But I guess I'm just nitpicking at the labels when the internal understanding is what matters...

I think the me is the experience of trying to hold on to something unholdable and the experience of trying to control the uncontrollable. Yeah that's what the me is I think... Another experience of that bigger scope of experience, but it's based on falsehood. One time I wrote"let go, and you realize there's nothing to let go of, since you were never holding anything, it's all just an illusion"

As much as I like to trick myself I'm no one. All I have to do is look and see. Like knocking on a door and no one being there to answer.

Still I forget... But I keep remembering over and over and that's good i think.

[Ilona]

Yes it's just a label really, something used in order to comunicate... I guess when you ask if there's a me that can be enlightened I can say that there is no me, just enlightment happening all the time. Weird to think of it that way... Cause what are we really doing here then? Heh

What are we doing here? Ending the chaise for the golden carrot of enlightenment...

Essentially, we look at labels, concepts, words, thoughts and see that there is much more going on then just thoughts. All words are concepts. All words are agreements to call a sensory experience by a name that we can communicate it. We communicate in concepts. The actual experience that is happening underneath all words is untouched by words, it can not fit into labels, it's much bigger that that. But we can use language and know that words are not things. That labels are not entities.

You say that me is everything, it contains everything. How about looking form the other angle. Everything just is. No labels, no containers, just wast open isness, being (verb).

Have a look, in experience, is there a container? Where are the lines? Is there inside and outside experience? Is sound heard inside or outside experience? How about visual field, can you see something that is inside or outside it?
Is there a line where me ends and other begins? Is the flow of totality something that can be chopped into separate pieces?

Can you see that every moment is fresh, Unrepeatable, and here now is always here, no need to remember, only need to look and notice. What is happening underneath all concepts?

Write what feels true.

Sending love

[Riker]

No container, no lines, no inside or outside experience. I guess sound is just sound, no outside or inside experience, but in communication we can say thoughts in our head provide inside experience sound, and sound coming from the physical world can be outside experience sound. With sight also, there are things we see with our physical eyes and things we see with our minds eye... But it's all mixed together without separation.

There are no lines where something begins or ends... You can't chop up experience.

You say that here and now is here always without needing to remember but a need to look and notice. Isn't a need to look and notice also a need to remember?

I think what is happening underneath all concepts is feelings. Feelings of sense perceptions, of thoughts, and of emotions. What is happening underneath is raw experience and all raw experience has a feel to it.

[Ilona]

Good work!

You say that here and now is here always without needing to remember but a need to look and notice. Isn't a need to look and notice also a need to remember?

I see what you are saying, remembering to look. What I am saying is that you can trust that here and now is always present without a need to remember that. Remember or not it does not change. In other words, past future is imagined, here now is present while imagining stuff.

If you watch a good movie sometimes you get drawn into the action, emotion, scene, that you forget it's a movie, but at any time you know it is a movie on a screen. So these states, that are ever changing, good bad, happy sad, fearful joyful, it's like a movie in the head, on the mind screen. There is always an exit out of the head into raw experiencing, becoming aware of what is actually going on, and it happens like getting sucked into the movie and zooming out again. It's natural. Notice this through the day.

Here is an exercise for you. You will need a fruit of any kind or a cookie, whatever is handy.

Put that fruit away for a bit, close eyes and imagine you are holding it. Feel the sensations that arise, imagine the smell, weight, texture, taste it, experience it as vividly as you can. Hold sensations in awarenes.

Then open eyes, take that fruit and experience it. Bite it, smell it. See the difference between imagined fruit and the real one.

Describe both experiences. Write down what you felt.
Notice that describing is another experience.
Notice that description creates a story, but you can not taste the imagined fruit, nor the description, nor words themselves.

Write what you learned form this.

Sending love

[Riker]

The first experience was faint, I felt it as though I was remembering a dream but not in the dream itself.
The second experience was bright, more fulfilling, less doubtful, more intense and it was easier to not have mental noise going on.

I think I learned that the real thing is always better than the fantasy... Well at least for good things. Or maybe just more intense and real... Though I guess the fantasy world is also real in a way. Either way both experiences happen in my mind, both are unique and interesting.

But I get what you are saying, I can always "escape" into raw experiencing whenever I start imagining too many things, or creating too many stories, or putting labels and judgements on things :)

[Riker]

Wait... But isn't everything raw experience? Even when you are in your mind imagining things it's still an experience that happens in the present moment...

But I guess the difference is that the mind imagining things can be turned off like a movie can be turned off... Pretty much at will... And the only way to turn off raw experience is to go into deep sleep or with a sedative or to die.

What do you think?

[Ilona]

But isn't everything raw experience? Even when you are in your mind imagining things it's still an experience that happens in the present moment...

Yes yes yes. There is something going on underneath all thinking.
Like when you are walking from a to b, legs are doing walking, mind is wandering in imaginary scenarios, walking is happening.
You can arrive at point b and not know how you got there.

When you are focused on imaginary, the raw, real experience is unnoticed.

But when you are imagining, the body reactions to imagined scenes are happening too and that is too raw experience.


Tell me, when you open eyes, do you need to do anything in order to see color?
Do you need to do anything to hear sounds?
Feel, sense textures and other sensations?
Can you turn on and off what is happening this moment?
What is not happening on automatic?

What do you actualy do?


Sending love

[Riker]

When I open my eyes I don't have to do anything to see color. Technically I know there is a tiny amount of time to wait till the light hits my eyes but it's obviously too small to notice.

Nothing to hear sounds...

Nothing to feel textures or other sensations.

Can't turn anything on or off... But I feel like I can choose to believe in things or not, identify or not... Observe certain things or not. I realize that's just an idea though... Another thought happening in my present moment that can be believed in or not... And since technically there's no me then I can't do those things either.

All is happening on automatic...

I don't do anything. But because there's no I, it's a trick question ;) ... Hey... They're all trick questions!

Just kidding... They're pointers to the fact that there's no self. That I'm not writing this response really, it's writing itself. Writing is just happening.

I can feel it when I'm inspired and I write poetry, how it comes alive and everything happens by itself without a me doing anything. But with more day to day activities , more routine stuff a lot of times I feel like I'm here doing stuff.

Right now I feel like I'm here writing this to you. Heh... Hold on let me look...

Yea... Nothing there... Just experience. But I want to exist... I want to be someone... Special.

You know what I mean? Heh...

[Ilona]

There is a subtle difference in saying, I do not do anything and I does not do anything. First one says that you are lazy and oblivious to what is happening, second one says that I is not the doer.
Thing is, it's the language itself, that leads us to believe in a doer.

For a day let's dig into language, to see how our language is designed, how it in itself creates an illusion.

see how we have verbs for action and nouns for objects? we say- tree is growing, bird is flying, a woman is crossing the road. there is someone/thing that does action. this is what language says
I breathe, i sit, i walk, i sing, i feel, i think.. but where is the i, the doer?
is i the breather, the sitter, the walker, the singer, the feeler? or i is a concept, part of language?

here is an exercise for you to examine this for yourself

http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html

do it here, or on paper and have a look, is there i the doer?
is there i the witness?
is there i that is typing reply?
is there a WHO?
Is there a you to be special?

looking forwards to your answers.

sending love

[Riker]

I am on a coach looking at a iPad. I am talking to my mom. I am listening to sounds. I am seeing clouds. I am feeling my feet. I am thinking of how to use the word me in a sentence. I am wondering if I should really keep this up for 10 minutes. I feel my hands on my stomach. I feel my feet. I think I'm a bit tired. I'm scratching your beard and thinking that I like my beard. I'm looking around the room. I just thought that I like hugs. I feel the leather of the sofa on my back. Someone asked me a question. I just used me in a sentence, and I think that's cool. I'm breathing in... And out...

I feel tightened, limited somehow. Egocentric in a way.

Liking this part of the exercise. Sitting on a sofa, watching a human body use a phone, feeling lighter, like floating away is happening, jaw relaxing, feet feeling alive, remembering how yoda talks from star wars, observing the brightness of the screen. Listening to voices. Observing the feelings in the head. Sleepy, happy, tongue moving.

There's no I... And no you... Just experience.

[Ilona]

haha nice!

Was there ever I?
is there I that can awaken/ cross the gate?

Is there a gate to cross?
how does it feel to answer this way?

sending love

[Riker]

It's like its over, the search was over before ir ever begun because there was no one to search in the first place. It was all layers upon layers of illusion, but without the search well... Well the illusion of a search, then the truth might not have been seen, even though it has always been.

So seeing has happened right? :) yay seeing is great

Happiness is being felt :)

[Ilona]

Awesome, yey!
Is there any doubt at all about the I?

Happy state is not something that is permanent. Life goes on, and things happen. All states change. There is no permanent state. But seeing is always available, once you know where and how to look.

Can you say with a big fat yes, it's clear that I as a separate being is an illusion ?

Sending love