Need help seeing the truth.

[Heketi]

Where does this idea of an 'aha' moment come from? LOOK

The idea comes from reading through the archives before starting this dialogue with you Fred. Honestly even before that. All the literature I've read of those that have seen this and have been liberated, they all seemed to have a moment of realization or clarity. A change in perception when the truth was seen. That is what I seem to be looking for here.

I look around in my direct experience. I look at the screen, the space between the eyes and the screen, and even behind the eyes; there is no self to be seen or found. And yet, because nothing seems to be different since the start of the dialogue, the assumption that the truth has not yet been realized is made.

[Freddi]

The idea comes from reading through the archives before starting this dialogue with you Fred. Honestly even before that. All the literature I've read of those that have seen this and have been liberated, they all seemed to have a moment of realization or clarity. A change in perception when the truth was seen. That is what I seem to be looking for here.

And that is how an expectation kicks in. This 'aha' moment you've read about has become an unmet expectation.
You have clearly seen that there is no self, but you're hanging on to a belief of something else, some state 'others' talk about. Seeing is different for every apparent one. Sometimes it is spectacular, sometimes it is a very subtle shift. In fact, I suggest to you that if you read again conversations on this forum, you would find as many different expressions of this shift as there are conversations. There is no 'one' thing to get. Just one LOOK is all it takes.
Ultimately I'm only holding up a mirror here, I can't help you with that unmet expectation. If the expectation can't be dropped right here and now, then we're going around in circles.
So, what do you say? Would NOW be a good time to let that finally go?

I look around in my direct experience. I look at the screen, the space between the eyes and the screen, and even behind the eyes; there is no self to be seen or found. And yet, because nothing seems to be different since the start of the dialogue, the assumption that the truth has not yet been realized is made.

Look at this paragraph and tell me what in it comes from direct experience and what comes from thought.

[Heketi]

If the expectation can't be dropped right here and now, then we're going around in circles. 
So, what do you say? Would NOW be a good time to let that finally go?

Yes, now is the time to let that go. So I need to look before any interpretation is done by the mind -- before any labels take effect; this itself is seemingly hard.

Look at this paragraph and tell me what in it comes from direct experience and what comes from thought.

Direct Experience: I look around in my direct experience. I look at the screen, the space between the eyes and the screen, and even behind the eyes; there is no self to be seen or found


Thought:And yet, because nothing seems to be different since the start of the dialogue, the assumption that the truth has not yet been realized is made.

[Freddi]

Thank you.
Could you revisit this question, and answer from direct experience, even if nothing has changed ...

How does it feel to see this? Is there any difference since the beginning of this dialogue?

Fred

[Heketi]

Hi Fred,

I need additional time on this one.


Thanks.

[Freddi]

Of course!
Take your time ...
Fred

[Heketi]

Hi Fred,

How does it feel to see this? Is there any difference since the beginning of this dialogue?

I am not having much success over there. I just can't seem to be able to answer this question. When the question is asked, there are no noticeable happenings in the direct experience; there is just emptiness.



Thank you.

[Freddi]

OK, that's all that is required. If no change is noticed then that's the answer ...

Could you decision, intention, free will, choice and control, as seen in direct experience?
What makes things happen? How does it work? What are 'you' responsible for? Give examples from your recent, day to day experience.

Thank you!

Fred

[Heketi]

Hi Fred,

Could you decision, intention, free will, choice and control, as seen in direct experience?
What makes things happen? How does it work? What are 'you' responsible for?

There seems to be a word missing in the first question -- going to assume that it is "describe."

So, decisions, intentions, free wills, choices and control all seem to be more or less the same thing. At the end of the day, those are just thoughts. Hunger is felt, and the mind attaches a form of the "self" label to it; for example, the "hunger" sensation is felt and then it is hijacked by the mind. It is perceived as "I hunger" or rather, "I am hungry" right after the "hunger" arises. There is no self that can be found who is responsible for anything.

Give examples from your recent, day to day experience.

1) Taking a shower, getting lost in the thought stream. Come back to the direct experience, realize that "I" am in the thought stream and that the mind/body is doing what it does based on learned experience without any input from any "self." "Doing what it does" as in, still scrubbing in the shower albeit "I" was lost in the river/stream of thoughts.

2) Driving to work in the morning and almost getting hit by a driver not paying attention. The mind/body complex reacted and steered away to avoid the potential car accident. When the body reacted, there was a sensation of movement and no longer than a second after that, the "I steered away" thought surfaced.

3) As "I" was writing this post, the body got up, walked to the kitchen and grabbed a bottle of water. The thought "I need some water" surfaced right before the hand reached for the bottle of water.




Thank you.

[Freddi]

Thank you, yes the word 'describe' was indeed missing ...

What is your reaction, what comes up when you re-read your initial words in our dialogue:

I am looking for a guide to help me see the truth of "no-self". My expectations are to be able to see the truth and recognize it beyond any doubt so that I can see what is real, and what is not. It feels like life really can't begin until this truth has been seen. Another expectation from this is, is inner peace.

Thanks!

Fred

[Heketi]

What is your reaction, what comes up when you re-read your initial words in our dialogue: 

I am looking for a guide to help me see the truth of "no-self". My expectations are to be able to see the truth and recognize it beyond any doubt so that I can see what is real, and what is not. It feels like life really can't begin until this truth has been seen. Another expectation from this is, is inner peace.

Thoughts, thoughts, and more thoughts.

My expectations are to be able to see the truth and recognize it beyond any doubt so that I can see what is real, and what is not

The truth has always been out there, just never really looked for; "right under the nose" if you would. The core assumption of a separate "self" was never really questioned to begin with. It was always assumed that "I think, therefore I am." It was always assumed that it just couldn't be as simple as just looking. Overcomplicating things because of unseen expectations that were later on seen. But there isn't an "I" thinking. You see, thinking is JUST happening, there is no "do-er" behind it nor in front of it. There is a perception of a "do-er," but perception is not reality -- it is just the idea of it and an idea, is just a thought after all; a thought amongst many in the never ending river of thoughts. A thought cannot "think." A thought cannot "see." A thought cannot "do." A thought, is just a thought -- just like the sunrise and sunset, and just like a shooting star, they come and go.

I used to firmly believe that everything that happens, happens for a reason. Now it is seen that everything that happens, just happens.

It feels like life really can't begin until this truth has been seen. Another expectation from this is, is inner peace.

Life always has, and always will be. Life just is. Anything to the contrary, is just a thought filtered by the mind to be perceived as such.


Nothing has really changed, everything is the same as before and that is just fine. I recall a moment back around 2010 or 2011 at work. I was just leaving the office and I stopped for a second to look at the wind, how the trees reacted to it, the sound of the wind/breeze and the sensation of it in the body. At that moment, there seemed to be a "click" or rather, a moment of clarity. Before I knew it, 30 minutes had passed and I was getting yelled at because I had not left yet (I was doing field work back then). I was so captivated by everything around me and from that moment on, I started saying the following two phrases and they sort of became "my way of life" if you would:

1) It's a beautiful day.
2) Everyday is a holiday.


Thanks!

[Freddi]

Thank you. I feel a certain letting go, especially in your last post. I will now invite other guides to look at our conversation, and will come back to you as soon as I have some news. They may or may not have further questions.

Thank you!

Fred

[Freddi]

Hello again,
Three guides have confirmed that seeing has indeed happened.
This is not the end, it is in many ways the beginning of the journey of exploration. I'll send you a private message about what follows ...
Bye for now!
Fred

[Heketi]

Hi Fred,

Thank you for your time and guidance. This feels like just the beginning for sure.