Please guide x

[forgetmenot]

Hi Shelly! :)

Did you notice that as soon as that car alarm or birdsong appeared that a thought also appeared labelling what the sounds were?
yes thats true.

Did you make those labels/thoughts appear, or did they just appear on their own?
No they appear on their own spontaneously

Great! So it is clear that thoughts labels everything continuously and that thoughts as well as sounds, sensation, taste, smell, colour all appear spontaneously and there is no one/nothing that is controlling them, making them happen, deciding if or when they appear or choosing what they want to appear and how and when and where?

How is it known that the appearing label goes with the appearing sound?

how is it known..its a thought that presents a label that goes with another thought like motor car and vroom the engine sound.

Can a thought present a label…label and thoughts are one and the same.
So, it is clear that it is only an appearing thought that points to the sound vroomvroom and says it belongs to a car? And is it clear that it is a thought that points to the colour and labels it a ‘car’? And it is thought that the sound vroomvroom and the colour red (whatever colour the ‘car’ is) belong to a ‘car’?

Is there really a car alarm or birdsong, or are they just sound that is appearing?

theres really just sound appearing

Yes, exactly! Nice LOOKING.

How is it known that the sound labelled as 'car alarm' is an alarm that is going off in a car?

a thought pops up and makes it seem knowable but its not really ever knowable its all learnt:-)

Yes, it is only a thought.

What is it exactly that has learned anything? Where is this someone/something has learned that a sound heard is a car alarm?

How is it known that the sound labelled 'birdsong' is a bird singing?

I'm not sure. I get that a sound has been learned/associated to a certain label and without the label the sound has no real meaning

Well LOOK at AE.
This has nothing to do with “learned/associated” conditioning.
What exactly is it that has “learned/associated” conditioning?

Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is a bird singing?
Does the colour labelled as ‘bird’ suggest in any way that it is a bird singing?

So what is ‘suggesting’ (how is it known) that the sound heard is a bird singing?

How is it known that the sounds are different?

I dont know how its known other than as a thought/label popping up saying car or water, the labels are different. so in AE its sound+thought

Yes EXACTLY!! Nice. It is only an appearing thought/labels saying that individual sounds belong to individual things. See how that points to separation?

And what is really appearing is sound and a label.
How is it known that the appearing sound and label go hand-in-hand….because another thought says so.

Is there sound AND the content of the sound?
What is the content of a sound?

Is there taste AND the content of the taste?
What is the content of a taste?

Is there smell AND the content of the smell?
What is the content of a smell?

Is there sensation AND the content of the sensation?
What is the content of a sensation?

What is the AE of "different"?

ah. there is no AE of different, different would be a label again

Yes! :)

Can an image (whether it be a visual image or a mental image) which is the AE of colour actually talk or make a sound?

thats like asking if one of the dream characters from last nights dream actually made a sound or was actually there or actually spoke..the answer would have to be no..but to look now in this moment..fingers are typing, that sound seems to be infront as if it were coming from the keyboard...but LOOK..dont think...with eyes closed listening to the sound theres no over there the sounds not really at a distance. open eyes and theres colours +sound +thought
like with the hand exercise the sensations not actually over there in the hand the sounds not over there in the image/colour

Lovely, Shelly….NICE LOOKING! :)

So what is the AE of a cat...it doesn't exist. All that is there is colour/image + label + sound + sensation. The cat itself is *entirely* fictional.
Can you see this?

yes its colours + sound + thought the label cat

Yes, and if you were to touch a ‘cat’, then there would be sensation.

So...if you don't know what the sound is ie no descriptors....are there many DIFFERENT sounds or is there just SOUND?

there is just sound thats true with no labelling

Terrific.

so with whats happening now...colours+sensation+thought+sound.. thats the AE with everything and anything so there is no difference-only in labels. its like lately seeing more that everything is just happening..life is just happening..whatever happens. its all a miracle everything a miracle and its all just happening..never was a me who was making it happen or making good or bad decisions or making people come or stay in life...the 'people' were all life not owned X

Beautiful, Shelly!

Love, Kay

[falcontooth]

So it is clear that thoughts labels everything continuously and that thoughts as well as sounds, sensation, taste, smell, colour all appear spontaneously and there is no one/nothing that is controlling them, making them happen, deciding if or when they appear or choosing what they want to appear and how and when and where?

yes its clear that thought labels everything and its clear that thought, sounds, taste, sensation, colour appear spontaneously without a controller called me who lives or owns or makes anything happen. no decider. no chooser. all spontaneously happening.

Can a thought present a label…label and thoughts are one and the same.

poor use of words no a thought cant present a label a thought and a label is the same yes.

So, it is clear that it is only an appearing thought that points to the sound vroomvroom and says it belongs to a car?

yes its clear.

And is it clear that it is a thought that points to the colour and labels it a ‘car’? And it is thought that the sound vroomvroom and the colour red (whatever colour the ‘car’ is) belong to a ‘car’?

[forgetmenot]

Hi Shelly!

That's terrific that you are clear on so many things now! :) Okay, I am posting these questions again so we can see where you are up to now! :) Can you answer each question individually please :)

Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?
Has it been clearly seen that there has never been a separate individual that could control or own life or anything?
Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?
Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?
Is there a separate entity that started this investigation?
Has there ever been a separate self doing anything?
Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?


Love, Kay

[falcontooth]

oops, hit the wrong tab there and sent early. continued:

And is it clear that it is a thought that points to the colour and labels it a ‘car’?

yes its a thought that pops up when the sound appears to say its a car making a sound outside

And it is thought that the sound vroomvroom and the colour red (whatever colour the ‘car’ is) belong to a ‘car’?

yes its thought. if theres no thoughtthere is just sound appearing yes

What is it exactly that has learned anything?

wow yeah that's thought too!

Where is this someone/something has learned that a sound heard is a car alarm?

amazing its a thought again.

What exactly is it that has “learned/associated” conditioning?

its a thought, a label. there is nothing actually there in AE

Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is a bird singing?

no. the sound is sound its not the label of what the sound is

Does the colour labelled as ‘bird’ suggest in any way that it is a bird singing?

no.the colour labelled as bird is only colour. the label is added to the colour.

So what is ‘suggesting’ (how is it known) that the sound heard is a bird singing?

em..what is suggesting that the sound heard is a bird singing....its a thought.

It is only an appearing thought/labels saying that individual sounds belong to individual things. See how that points to separation?

yes

And what is really appearing is sound and a label.
How is it known that the appearing sound and label go hand-in-hand….because another thought says so.

ah so its a thought that says the buzz goes with the bee..but sounds sound different...hold on.. LOOK...without the labels there is only sound without knowing what it is till a label appears

Is there sound AND the content of the sound?

no there's sound the content is a label again

What is the content of a sound?

a concept/label

Is there taste AND the content of the taste?

no there is just taste/flavour

What is the content of a taste?

theres no content to taste, taste is taste

Is there smell AND the content of the smell?

no theres smell/aroma

What is the content of a smell?

theres no content of a smell its an idea

Is there sensation AND the content of the sensation?

no theres just sensation, immediate, spontaneous

What is the content of a sensation?

there's just the raw sensation there's nothing else to it as in content

many thanks and much love shelly xx

[forgetmenot]

Hi Shelly,

It was so lovely to read your last post. You are seeing more and more how thoughts are just thoughts! Keep it up!! You are doing some fantastic LOOKING :)

And is it clear that it is a thought that points to the colour and labels it a ‘car’?

yes its a thought that pops up when the sound appears to say its a car making a sound outside

Yes :)

What is it exactly that has learned anything?

wow yeah that's thought too!

Yes...that is just another thought appearing!

Where is this someone/something has learned that a sound heard is a car alarm?

amazing its a thought again.

Yes! There is no someone/something to be found!

What exactly is it that has “learned/associated” conditioning?

its a thought, a label. there is nothing actually there in AE

Yessssssssssssssss! Lovely!

Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is a bird singing?
no. the sound is sound its not the label of what the sound is
Does the colour labelled as ‘bird’ suggest in any way that it is a bird singing?
no.the colour labelled as bird is only colour. the label is added to the colour.
So what is ‘suggesting’ (how is it known) that the sound heard is a bird singing?
em..what is suggesting that the sound heard is a bird singing....its a thought.

Yes! Those thoughts can be slippery little suckers!! haha :)

And what is really appearing is sound and a label.
How is it known that the appearing sound and label go hand-in-hand….because another thought says so.

ah so its a thought that says the buzz goes with the bee..but sounds sound different...hold on.. LOOK...without the labels there is only sound without knowing what it is till a label appears

Yes! It's a good thing to start to look for the thoughts that automatically appear, but because we are so used of them, we don't notice they are appearing. As soon as you see a cat, does not a thought appear labelling the colour as 'cat'?

That is why I asked you in the beginning to just notice actual experience.
Noticing a bee is just simply noticing colour.
Noticing the sound of a bee is simply sound.
Noticing a bee sting is just simply sensation (allbeit an 'ouchouch' lol).
Noticing the label 'bee' as simply a label
Noticing the thought story: "there is a bee flying amongst the flowers and it is buzzing loudly" as simply thought.

Is there sound AND the content of the sound?

no there's sound the content is a label again

Yes, the content is thought story.

Is there sensation AND the content of the sensation?
no theres just sensation, immediate, spontaneous
What is the content of a sensation?
there's just the raw sensation there's nothing else to it as in content

Yes! :)

Love, Kay

[falcontooth]

Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?

yes

Has it been clearly seen that there has never been a separate individual that could control or own life or anything?

yes

Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?

no chooser or decider nope

Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?

No.

Is there a separate entity that started this investigation?

no

Has there ever been a separate self doing anything?

LOOKING...No!

Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

em....not at the moment thanks Kay xx

[falcontooth]

so nothing was ever done and nothing has ever happened and nothings happening now and what ever seems to happen there's not really anything happening LOL x

[forgetmenot]

Hi Shelly,

so nothing was ever done and nothing has ever happened and nothings happening now and what ever seems to happen there's not really anything happening LOL

There seems to be many things happening in the dream, but if you are aware of the dream then can you actually be in the dream itself? It's like a night time dream. You might dream of yourself being in a dream, but are you actually in the dream? If you are in the dream itself then how could you be aware that you are in it?

Okay, for the purpose of seeing that there is no 'separate individual' and never has been, I think this phase of the exploration is done....don't you?

You can always ask for Further Investigation if you want to continue LOOKING, and being in the LU Aftercare FB group will also be of a great support to support you in continuing to LOOK.

So now I present you with the final questions. Could you please answer each of them individually and with some detail. In question 5, can you please provide some examples, as the question asks :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
What makes things happen? How does it work?
What are you responsible for?
Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?


Love, Kay

[falcontooth]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

no

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

There's a belief passed from generation to generation through society, culture, education and religion that says the human species is separated off from all the rest of life, that somehow humans were cast out of totality and that they are not lived by life anymore, they are not natural anymore, they are now living independently, for themselves, of their own selfish means, volition, of their own will, independently of god{life} and they are responsible for what unfolds, not life. and that what unfolds gets labelled with all kinds of things according to the belief/traditions/superstitions within that culture/faith/religion from place to place but the basic assumption across the planet is that each human is living, doing, making choices from their own separate will which is apart from god's will and further ideas of guilt and blame and fear, punishment keeps it all going until its challenged, questioned, LOOKED at then its obvious that there's no separation and no separate humans acting apart from the whole, that it was just a story.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

it feels..well amazing actually, freeing, relieving, releasing, simpler and also just the same with all the same stuff as before!

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

well having a guide helps stay focused on LOOKING and keeps snapping out of thought enough to LOOK and see the thoughts and investigate and what else..fear, suffering, doubt..these are all stories really I dont know..

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
What makes things happen? How does it work?
What are you responsible for?
Give examples from experience.

What makes things happen...no idea.
how does it work..i dont know.
what are you responsible for? every details taken care of including responsibility..a thought appears to go check the pan on the stove..none of that's owned. life is happening, talking is happening, reactions happening, what are you responsible for? there is no person there to be responsible.that could be added to question 3's answer...before coming here there was this idea of a me who is/could be responsible x

6) Anything to add?

thanks for the guidance Kay, words fail. Love Shelly x

[forgetmenot]

Hey Shelly,

Thank you for your responses. I am going to ask the other guides to have a look to make sure I haven't overlooked something and that everything is clear. They may or may not have further questions. This may take a day or two. In the mean time I will send you a PM via the forum to get your Facebook name so that when I get the 'all clear', I can get Werner to add you to the LU Aftercare group.

In the mean time, keep LOOKING :)

Love, Kay

[falcontooth]

Okay Kay, Thanks. I dont have a facebook account yet. love shelly x

[forgetmenot]

Hey Shelly,

Congratulations, and welcome through the Gateless Gate.There are no further questions for you. It was a pleasure walking with you and pointing the way.

It's wonderful that you opened a FB account and Werner from LU will add you to the LU Aftercare FB page which is a great place for continuing support, and a place to connect with other 'gaters'. See you there! :)

Love, Kay

[falcontooth]

Okay Kay thanks so much for everything, for this time here x see you on there :D
much love shelly X