No mistake

[Tigris]

Hi Mark,

Thank you.

Here is the list of expectations.

1. This is not a way to escape your daily life.

Ok. This I understand. (T)
Do I want to escape from my daily life? No... (T)
Hm..not now, but maybe in some future, if daily life becomes to painful would be nice to be able not to be destroyed with what is happening...(T)

2. This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.

Ok. Yes, because it is here already, always here (T)...like "background" .....from that thought
- feeling in the upper chest, feeling of "I am fine, comlitely fine", ....hard to go back to writing and thinking, like no need to think any more......(E,T),
All is fine (E)
Relise (E)
When I start thinking very soon all just becomes so complicated. (T)

3. This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.

Ok. (T)
Hmm, maybe I am deviding life into two: when I see It ("background"), and when I don' see it, when I fallen in to a sleep, as I said? (T)

4. This is not a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.

Yes, it is clear - it is not a thought. It is before... (T)

5. This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.

Clear. (T)
But maybe, Mark knows something what I don't know. (T)
How to escape a trap of the mind, to make me belive something which is not true... (T)
But what is wrong with that? (T)
It will come and it will go. (T)
Yes, it's not about knowledge. (T)

6. This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts.

Nothing.
Then, later. Ok, It is not about thoughts at all. Clear. (T)

7. This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.

Clear (T)
But... (T) Some people become better persons. (T)
But, is not about that. (T)
On word "holly" I notice some feeling, like slight unplasent feeling (E)

8. This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical.

Yes, it is to simple. Like a air, to simple. (T)
Feeling - "this" (E). Stoped...
No need to read eny more (T)
Stoped. Peace. (E)
After some time...
But I have to continue. (T)

9. This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.

Yes, I see. (T)
In this everything can happend. (T)
peaceful feeling... (E)
Stoped... (E)

10. This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.

That's clear. (T)
Any emtoion or intense feeling can arise in any moment. (T)
Later: Do I still maybe expect freedom from unpleasent or painfuul emotions?
Hm...No. (T)
This is not possible. (T)

11. This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.

Hm...not to get rid of self...but I see that without thoughts or storry simple there is no solid self (T)
Hm.... What about pain? Who is feeling the pain? Not me? (T)
It is pain, without story of me having pain, is just pain. (T)
Ok. (T)

12. This is not a solution to problems in relationships.

This sounds funy. (T)
But, here we are, but when the "background" is seen is very different. Not so catchy. (T).
feeling - like - people are more dear to me (E)
Whom to judge? (T)
Release, peace (E)

13. This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.

Clear. (T)
But, with belive that there is my life, and that my life is in my hands and that I am the onlyone responsible for all - it's imposible not to be depressed or sick. (T)
Ok. It is not...But can be the way. (T)

14. This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.

OK.
This is not possibble anyhow. (T)

15. This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.

Hmm. Not? (T)
What is this? (T)
Aha, yes, story of you, like anything alse can arise...(T)

16. This is not about convincing you of anything.

Yes, because is not about thinking. (T)

17. This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.

Haha (E)
But, wait, how some peopele became very rich by selling spiritual staff. (T)
It's not my bussiness. (T) This has nothing with this. (T)
Can be opposite to. Anything can be... whatever life brings. Yes. (T)

18. This is not a self improvement program.

Clear. It is oposite. (T)
But, maybe my self is playing a trick, traying to improve itself by loosing itself (T)
Funny (T,E)

With almost all lines in the list, first I had like - Ok. Ofcourse. This is clear.
And then this changed. And more and more thougts were coming up.
Less emotions.

Feeling is like that here are two or thre "entities"...
One in the position of seeng the "background" (at the moment some thought "put" me there...from that position all liners are irelevant, not atractive at all. Clearly seen that This has nothing with what is written in liners.

Then, when thinking starts... from the position of readers - I start finding that some liners can actualy be very atractiv. And that I am not so sure that I really don't expect what is writen in some of them.

And then later I see those liners just as possibilities which can sound attractive to me.
Again I see that "This is not about...", but can be, just as a byproduct.
Same like opposite of it.

Cheers

Tigris

[ElPortal]

Hi Tigris

Ok thanks for that len...g..g.g.g.t.h..h.h.y response!

Ever noticed how (T) so often seems to be accompanied by brain ache? Ouch!

So, what, if any, were the main one or two (E)'s which came up for any of those 18 statements?

Then we will continue our exploration.

Cheers

Mark

[Tigris]

Hi Mark,

Thank you a lot.

Yes, was lengthy. Till yesterday I feel such pressure in my head. Today pain started, and i feel like sick, weakness in all body. Like some infection started with this exercise. My mind is boiling.

Ever noticed how (T) so often seems to be accompanied by brain ache? Ouch!

Not sure to understand "brain ache". Do you thing on this "Hm"? Now, came to my mind that this is not en english expression. This letters I used for this sound of strong, loud exhale. And then question mark...And than my thinking process started, I entered in to the story... (with ever "but...")

So, what, if any, were the main one or two (E)'s which came up for any of those 18 statements?

I can't find any (E)'s which came up for any of those 18 statements.
(E)'s that came up were for my comments (T) on some of those statements. This triggered (E), not original statement.

On word "holly" I notice some feeling, like slight unplasent feeling (E)

This (E) also didn't happen on "holly" but on my memories (T) about holly.

Cheers

Tigris

[ElPortal]

Hi Tigris, and thanks for that response.

Not sure to understand "brain ache"

"Brain ache" means head ache, but I was really referring to how thinking can sometimes be accompanied by stress, 'me' beliefs etc.

Till yesterday I feel such pressure in my head. Today pain started, and i feel like sick, weakness in all body. Like some infection started with this exercise. My mind is boiling.

Ok, so before we go hunting to see whether any real separate self can be found in actual experience, I would like to invite you to do this exercise. It's a procedure that can be used whenever 'unwelcome' or difficult feelings/emotions come up, or resistance to something. I call it Looking into Resistance:-

1. Notice the resistance, or 'difficult' emotion or 'unwelcome' feeling, along with any story/narrative/mental explanation with it.
2. Now, leaving aside the story and focus on the feeling itself behind the story. Notice all bodily sensations, their location, qualities, apparent shape, even colour, movement etc. Give this some time. No need to fight them.
3. Instead of turning away from it (a natural reaction!), can it be turned towards with curiosity and affection, embraced, like a little child or a pet, come for attention?
4. Ask it if it has come to show you something and then allow any mental images, memories or other words to appear. (For example, is it trying to protect you from something?) If not, that's fine; if yes, thank it, and notice any further physical sensations which arise from these (going back to step 2. and working through again).
5. Notice the sensations staying as long as they want to, and subside or leave whenever they are ready.

Let me know what happens, please concentrating on the actual firsthand sensed experience, rather trying to reason the 'why's of what's happening.Take time with this, Tigris.

Cheers

Mark

[Tigris]

Hi Mark,

Thank you.

"Looking into Resistance" I did yesterday, tonight and I am still doing it.

The most dominant sensation is in the front right corner of a had, yesterday and tonight much more intensive, now still present but not so intensive. Intensity is changing from moment to moment.

This time was not hard to leave aside the story, and also didn't find intension to run away from unpleasant sensation.
Ad (4) didn't get any direct answer at the moment being in the sensation. Later, don't know exactly when some (T) popped up, and they were - what you said "trying to reason the 'why's of what's happening".

Another dominant sensations were faster heart beating, deeper breathing. Now also.
Less of (T). More just sensation of being alive and be breathed.

5. Notice the sensations staying as long as they want to, and subside or leave whenever they are ready.

Yes. I noticed that.

Cheers

Tigris

[ElPortal]

Great Tigris, thanks for reporting the results.

This is an exercise that can be used whenever there is some emotional resistance or strong reaction or tangible reaction.

Now, let's look to see whether an individual "I" can be found. Where might "I" be located:-

Please slowly stand up and take 5 paces across the room. Then slowly return and sit again. All the time noticing in actual firsthand experience (E) what is happening. Can an individual happen controlling any of that? Can a controller a controller called 'me' actually be found?

Remaining sitting. Raise one hand into the air, then let it go back down again. Then repeat several times. Notice carefully what is happening. Does it happen on its own, or can a controller actually be found (sensed (E)), which would be making it happen?

Please as you do these exercises report on what is sensed, experienced (E). Also, any feelings and sensations which come up (E).

Cheers

Mark

[Tigris]

Hi Mark,

Thanks a lot...this was interesting.

Please slowly stand up and take 5 paces across the room. Then slowly return and sit again. All the time noticing in actual firsthand experience (E) what is happening. Can an individual happen controlling any of that? Can a controller a controller called 'me' actually be found?

No, from actual firsthand experience (E), I couldn't find it, something like some real centar from which controlling is happening. I tried again and again, was more feeling like - legs are walking by itself. Alone. Just moved.

I noticed sound of my steps on a wodden floor (E), moving, swinging armes while walking (E).

Remaining sitting. Raise one hand into the air, then let it go back down again. Then repeat several times. Notice carefully what is happening. Does it happen on its own, or can a controller actually be found (sensed (E)), which would be making it happen?

No, also couldn't found by any sensation who is controlling ...my God..... this was only an learned (T).
It is same like with walking...

Feeling of the havines of the arm (E). And a stroke of the hand on a thight. (E)

Cheers!

Tigris

[ElPortal]

HI Tigris

Thanks for that response. Oh oh, looks like no controller can be found in there! Nothing in charge, contrary to conditioned beliefs and up-bringing!

Where else can we look for "I"? Is "I" this body? Imagine for a moment (please don't do this for real or there will be trouble) that you chop off one leg? Is there any less "Tigris" left, maybe 80%? Imagine that you chop off the other leg. Is there any less "Tigris" left, maybe 60%? Imagine that you chop off one arm. Is there any less "Tigris" left, maybe 50%? Imagine that you chop off the other arm. Is there any less "Tigris" left, maybe 50%?

Please notice the sensations and all that comes up in (E) as you consider this.

Does that body = "Tigris" or is that body a body (which has been labelled "Tigris"? Please consider and let me know which one of these FEELS MORE REAL right now?

Cheers

Mark

[Tigris]

Hi Mark, thanks to you, that didn't ask me for any (t) in last exercise.

Oh oh, looks like no controller can be found in there! Nothing in charge, contrary to conditioned beliefs and up-bringing!

Absolutely!(E)
I tried again and again, and got a same result.

Imagine for a moment (please don't do this for real or there will be trouble) that you chop off one leg? Is there any less "Tigris" left, maybe 80%?..........

Please notice the sensations and all that comes up in (E) as you consider this.

Image of my body without leg, same feeling of beingness or aliveness like now (with the leg) (E)
Image of my body without arm, same feeling of beingness or aliveness like now (with the arm) (E)

Does that body = "Tigris" or is that body a body (which has been labelled "Tigris"? Please consider and let me know which one of these FEELS MORE REAL right now?

Feels more real that body is a body, and Tigris is a label attached to that body.

Cheers

Tigris

[ElPortal]

Hi Tigris,

Thanks for that response.

Ok, looks like this body doesn't feel like Tigris. So we can't seem so far to find a controller called Tigris, nor a body called Tigris.

Can we find anywhere in life where Tigris intervenes and makes autonomous decisions? Can we find an independent Tigris who truly has free will? Let's have a look:-

Imagine for a moment a scene: one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high. Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side. Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground, the grass, weather conditions etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or is it more the product of environmental conditions and water, like an an ever-changing pattern?

A. Now, consider: can you find anywhere where 'I' autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements, that is not a part of the overall flow?

B. Now please consider a regular everyday decision made, eg what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from: any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!). etc etc. Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find somewhere?

As always, report any sensations which come up as well as the answers to the questions.

Cheers

Mark

[Tigris]

Hi Mark,

Thank you.

Does it choose any of its directions?

No.

Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground, the grass, weather conditions etc?

No.

Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or is it more the product of environmental conditions and water, like an an ever-changing pattern?

It is more the product of all environmental conditions and water and it is more like an ever-changing pattern.
Can not be the same entity moment by moment.

A. Now, consider: can you find anywhere where 'I' autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements, that is not a part of the overall flow?

No, I can't find.

B. Now please consider a regular everyday decision made, eg what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from: any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!). etc etc. Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find somewhere?

No, I couldn't find. No autonomous intervention, never, always is the entire field is in action, and this "I" is undivided part of that field. Field or flow as you said.
Feels very good. Like a big release. Like very right, clear. Like no doubt. Proofs are everywhere around me.
I feel peaceful.

Cheers

Tigris

[ElPortal]

Hi Tigris

Great!

So can any individual called Tigris really be found?
Or is it Life just flowing in its inexplicable way, which was thought to be 'Tigris'?
How does it feel to see this?

Cheers

Mark

[Tigris]

Hi Mark,

So can any individual called Tigris really be found?

No.

Or is it Life just flowing in its inexplicable way, which was thought to be 'Tigris'?

Absolutely YES!

How does it feel to see this?

It feels liberating, beautiful, relaxing, bringing tears to my eyes...
Yes, veeery liberating!

Thank you a lot!

Tigris

[ElPortal]

HI Tigris

That's great. Now please wait patiently for a little while, as I ask other guides whether they have any questions for you.

Hugs to you

Mark

[Tigris]

Hi Mark,

Ok.

Tigris