I Think I'm Close

[Karmic Eraser]

Great day! I just posted a reply and apparently took too long doing it. When I hit "submit," it told me to sign in again and it's GONE! Yikes!! That happened once before, but I must have felt it coming. I had copied the post onto clipboard so I could just paste it in again. But not today, LOL.

It's too late in the day for me. I did print your post out this morning, and I chewed on it all day. I'll repost in the morning when I'm fresh. Gosh, all the "I" and "me" seems weird; it's not how I'm thinking. It's all good!
Talk to you in the morning, Derek. Have a good night.
Not-July

[Karmic Eraser]

Good Evening, Derek.

Well, maybe I'm way, way off here. You have your work cut out for you! Maybe I need a bit of direction, because the question is always the same, and I keep thinking I have answered it. Apparently I'm just not seeing what you're seeing, or even looking in the same direction?

When I said, "I can experience the construct, I can live within the construct, but I cannot BE the construct," I meant Awareness. I should have said me as Awareness: Awareness can experience the constructed personality, Awareness can even experience within the parameters of a given mental construct or self-identity, but it cannot actually BE the construct. There's nothing to "be." The construct isn't real. It would be like July pretending to be queen for a day, imagining what life must look like through a queen's eyes. She can play at such a thing, but she can't BE queen. It's even more extreme for Awareness, because Awareness isn't a thing. It's Beingness. You can use any word you like: God is not a thing; God is Awareness. Spirit is not a thing; Spirit is Awareness. Life isn't a thing; it's another word for the same Awareness.

Ramtha The Enlightened One describes himself as The Lord of the Wind. After his first out-of-body experience, he changed his intent from finding the Unknown God to BEing the Unknown God. He realized (and teaches) that the wind is not a thing we can point to, but we can see its effects. Likewise, Awareness/God is not a thing we can point to, but we can BE it and have an effect on every non-existent thing around us because it's OUR made-up, delusional reality.

I completely understand that this forum is not about the path of least resistance, making life easier, and if that's what I were looking for, we wouldn't be having this complex conversation. I just meant that we seem to live life the hard way, wrestling with every thought that appears to come our way, rather than the easy way of observing thoughts and interacting with only those that appear to serve us "here in the world."

I explained what I'm doing to my husband in terms I thought he could understand. I certainly would explain it differently to you. "But there's a part of us that is pure Awareness . . . and that part is eternal." Actually, I think that Awareness is ALL that we are. You asked, "Does this supposed part exist outside of your thought-system?" I would say that Awareness is all, and so it includes or encompasses the illusory thought-system. You can say that July is a made-up identity, and I get that. You can say that the world is an illusion, and I get that. You can say that my friend is a projection of mind, and I get that. But if you say there is nothing, not even awareness, I'm stumped. It seems that Awareness is our REAL state of being. That Awareness is dreaming a dream (or 7 billion dreams on this planet) solely for the sake of experiencing it. Or Life is dreaming a life solely for the sake of expressing it.

No, I can't point to Awareness, I can't see Awareness apart from myself because it's what I am. Awareness and I are the same state of Awareness, and I suspect that everyone is this state along with me. That's how it looks to me at this point in our conversation. From this "perspective," I'm still more an Observer in my life than I am a participant. Not that I'm not doing things, going through the motions, chopping wood and carrying water. I'm just not "believing in it" as much anymore. And for the most part, I have almost no concern for what happens or how things turn out. I'm enjoying not knowing, not caring, and just waiting to see what comes next. All together, this "feels" like the absence or the cessation of "July." She came back before, and she may again. I'm seeing things differently, but I don't think I'm yet seeing what you want me to see.

I hope you're not banging your head against the desk by now! What's next, patient teacher?
Not-July

[Derek]

Hi, July,

Thanks for your explanation of where you are, which is very helpful. I get that you're very close, and yet I'm just not sure if you're actually there yet. Sometimes it seems you are, and sometimes it seems you're not.

For example, in "interacting with only those that appear to serve us," there is suddenly the sense of a separate do-er to do the interacting and a separate "us" to be served.

What I'm seeing is that the sense of a solid, separate self, which in most people is attached to the word "I," is for you now attached to the word "awareness."

Or in "I'm still more an Observer in my life than I am a participant," the sense of solidity and separateness is now attached to the word "Observer."

You've seen that the personality is a constructed thing, but the job now is to see through the feeling of do-ership and separateness, which are also constructed.

So let's take a real example. You mentioned some time ago the sensation of the arm resting on a chair. Is there really a solid thing called "awareness" or an "observer" separate from the sensation itself?

Derek.

[Karmic Eraser]

Didn't I warn you I was going to be a problem child?

I'm glad my explanations were helpful. Certainly your questions here are helpful. But I need another day, this evening to think about them. So this is just a "checking in" post, and I'll be back to put words to what is in the morning.

Sweet Dreams!
July

[Karmic Eraser]

Good Morning, Derek.

I've come to a complete mental standstill here. I can't explain what I'm seeing without using personal pronouns, and that's exactly what "I'm" trying to explain: it's not personal!

Starting with the simple:

You mentioned some time ago the sensation of the arm resting on a chair. Is there really a solid thing called "awareness" or an "observer" separate from the sensation itself?

No. It's like that old question, "If a tree falls in the forest . . ." Without Awareness being aware, there would be no sensation. But Awareness is not a solid thing, not a separate thing, not a personal thing. Awareness of the chair is happening in this apparent body, but it's not "me." Neither the Awareness nor the body carry a "me."

How is it for you, Derek, now that you've had your awakening experience? It has been a while since I read any other threads here, but my impression is that not a lot changes: emotions still arise, but they are not "you." Events still happen, but they don't define "you." Life is just happening through the body you used to think was "yours." I like what Lisa Cairns said, "There is no me that gets liberated; it's that somebody falls away." An unreal somebody at that! What is the sense that is left? Allness? Isn't it just the absence of a self??

For example, in "interacting with only those [thoughts] that appear to serve us," there is suddenly the sense of a separate do-er to do the interacting and a separate "us" to be served.

I don't know how to word this without painting an apparent do-er. I understand that "I" don't do anything; "I" don't exist. I fluctuate between seeing this and not, so it isn't a permanent shift yet. Maybe I should have said, When there's a sense of self, the imagined "I" wants to wrestle with every thought that comes by, but when that self falls away, Life expressing through this body only interacts with the thoughts that serve it, such as "breakfast."

What I'm seeing is that the sense of a solid, separate self, which in most people is attached to the word "I," is for you now attached to the word "awareness."

No, not exactly. It's the "in and out" thing again. Awareness is neither a separate self nor a solid self. It's just Awareness, Life, but no one is here. When the July self falls away, there is just Life expressing, the same life that expresses through all bodies, not separate, not a self. I don't know why the concept of "July self" keeps coming back, habit maybe. But my overall impression is that there is no self, ANYWHERE, in any body.

You've seen that the personality is a constructed thing, but the job now is to see through the feeling of do-ership and separateness, which are also constructed.

This feels the most accurate. I think it will be easy for the feeling of "do-ership" to fall away; it seems to belong to the personality. But how does the feeling of separateness go? Awareness, in this apparent experience, is only aware of experiences here, locally. There is not an awareness of ALL awareness, though that is intellectually understood.

I just want to add that by saying there's more observing than participating here, most everything does seem impersonal now. Observation is happening, but nothing that happens carries the importance "July" used to place on it. The gearshift is set for "neutral." Very little seems to be going on in the head; most everything is taken in as impression, sensation, and then the next moment is taken in. There's just watching to see what is next, with no particular desired outcome. There can only be "this moment," and another will be here in a "moment."

Whew! Your turn. Happy headache!
July

[Derek]

Hi, July,

Thanks again for a long and detailed report, which is very helpful. Reading it, I do get the sense you might have seen the truth.

I understand the difficulty in avoiding personal pronouns. Language itself seems ill-equipped to describe what we're talking about here. I think you mentioned you were a writer. As you know, a well-formed sentence needs a grammatical subject. But what if one's perspective on reality is that there are no truly separate subjects? Language can't go there.

You were asking about me. I'm slightly reluctant to talk about how it is for me, firstly since my experience is that words always give a misleading impression. Back to language problems again! But secondly, I very much don't want to put words into your mouth. Still, I'll answer your question, as that might progress our discussion.

There are various approximations I can give. It is as though consciousness has become "unhooked" from experiences. There's no stickiness. But that is already a misleading way to put it, in that there isn't actually a "thing" that has become unhooked! It is as though it was only the stickiness that was creating the impression there was a "thing hooked" in the first place!

If I had to put it into non-abstract language, words an eight-year-old might understand, I would say, "Basically, there's nobody there."

Do those words fit your experience? How would you describe what you've seen to an eight-year-old?

Do you have the sense that the thing which needed to happen has happened, and there isn't anything more you need to do?

[Karmic Eraser]

Good Morning, Derek.

I understand about not wanting to "lead the witness," so to speak. And so I appreciate that you shared your perspective with me. Words cannot explain what "isn't," they just CAN'T.

It is as though it was only the stickiness that was creating the impression there was a "thing hooked" in the first place!

I think I understand this. Everything that ever happened was happening to a "me," and that personal ownership is where the sense of a "me" came from. When we get right down to the understanding that there is only ever this moment, no concept of a "me" is really possible because it relies on memories and projections. And there's no way to prove that what I think I remember ever happened! "I" might have popped into existence only 3 seconds ago. But in truth, there is no 3 seconds ago. So there can be no "I."

If I had to put it into non-abstract language, words an eight-year-old might understand, I would say, "Basically, there's nobody there."

Yes. That is exactly how I would explain it! I can remember, when my niece was about 8 years old, trying to explain to her that there is no such thing as time. I should have seen then that the concept of a self is also an illusion. Having to function in the world, I still use personal pronouns. But there is no "stickiness" in my understanding that anything is about a "me." There are no nouns, only verbs: experience, observe, live. In a way, this DOES make life easier because there's no need to look for a purpose or a reason for anything. There is only delight at what happens in each moment because the moment is not connected to a motive or real "need." Since there appears to be a body in "my" experience, I make a plan or a schedule for the day. But it really is wonderful to have no attachment to it, so that if the plan falls apart or goes astray, there's no one here to care. There is only delight in the new direction. I understand that this childlike wonder may not be permanent yet; there might be a recurring tendency to take things personally and re-form a self in the mind. Yet one second of clarity reaffirms that a self is impossible; there is only experiencing.

Do you have the sense that the thing which needed to happen has happened, and there isn't anything more you need to do?

Yes and no. I feel like there has been a death, and since "I" have never been the type to grieve, it feels as if something is undone. There's a slight sense of "missing" someone who is no longer here, yet even that is fading. I'm very comfortably focused on the Now moment, just taking things in impersonally, but there is a sense that there's more of a shift to come. This might only be a sense of closure, but I do feel like I'm waiting for the other shoe to fall, whatever that may be.

You've seen that the personality is a constructed thing, but the job now is to see through the feeling of do-ership and separateness, which are also constructed.

I think this is where "I" am. "The feeling of do-ership and separateness, which are also constructed." I'm looking at that. And maybe there's a feeling of do-ership because "I'm" looking, deliberately contemplating instead of just receiving whatever thought comes next. I'm intrigued by the idea that separateness is a construct, yet I don't understand what "not separate" would be like. Intellectually I understand there is only Life experiencing "through us." But I don't "experience" that when I converse with you, I'm really talking to me. And yet, I feel alone here, like there's no "self" in anyone, only one Awareness expressing through us all. Wow, I'm having a really hard time again making words work here! So maybe we could talk a bit about separateness being a construct?

Thanks so much, Derek! You really have helped so much, more than I could explain without using a bunch of personal pronouns!
July

[Derek]

Hi, July,

You are so, so close!

That sense of childlike wonder in the present moment, and your affirmation that basically nobody is there, make it sound as though you've already seen it. Same thing when you say that there is only life expressing itself through us all.

Yet you sense there's still something to be done. Sometimes there is still the impression of a do-er of the looking, or a separate receiver of experiences, or a separate person to feel alone.

Now, curiosity about what non-separateness would be like is natural, but that's not the way to get there. Again, we're not trying to think our way into a different mindset. We're just examining what is already the case.

So look at this sense of separateness, next time it arises, and each and every time it arises. What is it made of? What is happening in the body when there is an impression of a separate do-er or receiver or person to be alone?

Derek.

[Karmic Eraser]

Good Morning, Derek.

So look at this sense of separateness, next time it arises, and each and every time it arises. What is it made of? What is happening in the body when there is an impression of a separate do-er or receiver or person to be alone?

I know I'm falling behind our promised schedule. And I thought I had thought about this all day yesterday, but of course you've thrown a wrench in the works, "in the body." What is happening in the body? I'm sure it all starts with a thought, the construct trying to save itself or whatever. The mind has reached up to attach labels to some thought, and then looks for verification in the form of sensation in the body.

So I suppose we could say that dishes are being washed, and that this body appears to be washing dishes, but that doesn't mean there's a "me" in here doing them. There's the sensation of water and ceramic and glass and steel, and those sensations do not have to be labeled as "mine." Life appears to be doing the dishes and needs no help from an imaginary concept.

Okay, I need to watch this happening today. I'll check back this afternoon in case I'm way off base, but I'm seeing that the trigger for bringing back the ego is bodily sensation--ownership of bodily sensation. At least, that's how it seems in the moment. A new mental toy to play with! I'll appear to return!!

Thanks,
July

[Derek]

Hi, July,

Yes, keep watching how body-sensations and mind-dreams interact to create the impression there is an "owner" of the experiences, or the experiences are happening to "someone." It's a bit like a series of dots that the mind erroneously connects, even though all that truly exists are isolated dots.

Derek.

[Karmic Eraser]

Good Morning, Derek.

Have I mentioned that you're really good at this??

Yes, what I kept noticing yesterday was repeatedly being pulled back in: annoyance, resistance, reluctance, boredom. Labeling away like a mad mind! And experiencing those labels in the body. Such fun! And of course wondering how "one" gets out of the construct and allows Awareness to go back to just what It Is.

Practice. Today I'm just watching the dots. Mind could connect any dot to any other, force a relationship of anything to any other thing. All that is "real" is this moment, free of any other. There cannot BE anything else, so there cannot BE separation from anything else. Everything is This.

Practicing,
July

[Derek]

Hi, July,

Thank you!

Now, let's press on!

There is no getting out of a construct to be done. There's no getting out of anything to be done, because there's nothing there to do the getting out. Just look at what already is. Annoyance, resistance, reluctance, and boredom are just what's there.

What creates the impression that some "thing" is being pulled back in?

Derek.

[Karmic Eraser]

Good Morning, Derek!

What creates the impression that some "thing" is being pulled back in?

The answer to this is in the question you asked the day before:

Yes, keep watching how body-sensations and mind-dreams interact to create the impression there is an "owner" of the experiences, or the experiences are happening to "someone."

The body and mind stay busy, sensation/label, sensation/label. What helps here is knowing that there is only This Moment, and that by the time mind labels a thought, the Moment and the thought are already gone. There cannot BE a construct made of nothing.

Awareness moves from Being everything to pretending to see through a limited mind. But there is only ever This, Awareness of This Moment.

Something is missing in the understanding and the experiencing of this; waiting for something to "dawn." Perhaps it is only the "fear" of not being able to hold on to clarity. I can only stand at the gate and wait, as you did.

Have you ever heard this story: An old beggar sat at the city gate, watching the people come and go. He watched poor travelers and rich merchants go through the gate, and he contemplated what the world must look like through each pair of eyes. At last one day he said, "Now I have seen everything," and he walked out into the desert and ascended.

I've never heard an explanation of the story, but I think that by "see" the beggar meant "understand." Thus came the dawn. I think I think I'm waiting for a "click." So I can only continue to wait and watch.

Thanks,
July

[Derek]

Hi, July,

The final stage of waking up is a mysterious process, and I don't know what I can do to guide you any further. Is there anything else I can do to help you?

Derek.

[Karmic Eraser]

Derek,

Ah. Yes. I might come here from time to time to ask about an aspect of experiencing. I hope you find me. But if not, may I PM you when "the dawn" finally comes, and let you know?

Also: ThankYouThankYouThankYouThankYou!!!

July