Thread for Esme

[Esmeralda]

Hi Bill

Who or what is wanting this 'freedom'?

I can't find any one or thing wanting freedom. The more I look, the more elusive it becomes. At this point, the only thing I can find wanting it is a thought saying it wants it.

Are you able to find Esme anywhere? Sensations happen, the mind registers everything, but is Esme anywhere?

No. Nowhere. As I sit, thoughts and sensation arise, and as you say, the mind registers everything. But I can't find an entity to claim ownership of anything. There is just a noticing happening, that seems to be located somewhere behind my eyes, but when I look for the noticing, I can't locate it either. There is just life-ing, for lack of a better word. I'm going to keep doing this exercise. It's lovely.

[Bill]

Thanks Esme...... yes keep doing that exercise if it is helpful for you to just simply 'look'.
It seems to be a good one.

from your previous post:

And so I know that a lot of awakened people (for lack of a better word) don't see themselves as special, and in fact often point out how very ordinary this seeing is, but *I* see them as special, because they see something I don't. So sure, in that way, there is the belief of gaining something extra - the insight into reality. And so, a lot of things that are on the list are things that know already - as in I have heard and see it being said before - but I don't know them to be true in my heart clearly, since the reaction to reading them is that of sadness, disappointment and confusion.

What is it that other people could 'see' that you don't?
Where could 'reality' possibly be hiding from you?
Stop and just open your eyes right now, and look.... You're seeing the same thing that the Buddha or any of these other exalted spiritual figures would be seeing.. The same thing.. What is it? Simply the present reality. Not only what you're seeing, but what your hearing, feeling doing, thinking and are aware of... that is reality.
What you're seeing is reality. See this Esme...its never left you.

No matter what you do.. or how hard you try, you can't escape this reality. Its never happened. Even when you are wrapped up in thoughts and not paying attention to any of it..... this reality does not go away or quit.
Everywhere you look, or don't look for that matter.. there it is.
It's simple..Its obvious.. but if you are looking for fireworks, and 'aha' type moments...then you will not see it.

Can you stop, right now and just look at the present reality right in front of you?
You have been 'seeing' it all your life....just stop and notice.
Can you get a feel for this?

[Esmeralda]

Hi Bill,

What is it that other people could 'see' that you don't?

The self as an illusion. That there never was a self, and so just like seeing that there is no Santa, there will never again be a belief in Santa. I can see for brief, or sometimes more prolonged moments, that a self cannot be found. But then, "it" comes back again. It being both the belief as well as the contracted 'me-sense'.

Where could 'reality' possibly be hiding from you?

Reality is always right here and now of course...But filtered and labelled through the eyes of a 'me'.

It's simple..Its obvious.. but if you are looking for fireworks, and 'aha' type moments...then you will not see it.

Would you mind elaborating a little bit on this please? I think I've let go of the expectation of fireworks, for sure. But I am definitely waiting for the 'aha' type moment; the moment where it s just clear and self is seen through..the moment where it 'falls off' so to speak.

Can you get a feel for this?

Yes, definitely. I often sit and just look or listen, these moments tend to turn into thought-free moments (not deliberately so), where there is just the five senses, and the noticing of them. And I've often acknowledged that this noticing is exactly the same as when I was a child; that the looking is only just ever looking. But then I don't want to make a story about it....But yeah, I can get a feel for it I think.

[Bill]

hello.. how is it going?
are you finding this iniquity good?
I hope to hit on some things you might not have looked at...

What is it that other people could 'see' that you don't?

The self as an illusion. That there never was a self, and so just like seeing that there is no Santa, there will never again be a belief in Santa. I can see for brief, or sometimes more prolonged moments, that a self cannot be found. But then, "it" comes back again. It being both the belief as well as the contracted 'me-sense'.

That's not quite what I was referrring to...
Im talking about normal everyday life and what is in your awareness.
Is there something out there there to be 'seen' that you can't see like other people?
Is there some special vision you don't have?
Is there something real to be seen that is ellusive to you??

.....But what you said still tells me you're wanting a 'state'..
a state of prolonged 'no self'....
What is wrong with this moment as it is?
So what if it comes back... can't you just 'look' again?
Why do you want something different?
If this moment were just let be as it is.... would there be any 'wanting' or problem?

It's simple..Its obvious.. but if you are looking for fireworks, and 'aha' type moments...then you will not see it.

Would you mind elaborating a little bit on this please? I think I've let go of the expectation of fireworks, for sure. But I am definitely waiting for the 'aha' type moment; the moment where it s just clear and self is seen through..the moment where it 'falls off' so to speak.

Falls off? Hmmmm....
For me it was seen through, but nothing fell off like that.

Think about this... the self that is trying to see through the illusion is the illusion.
Can an illusion see thru itself?
Until this is really gotten.. the questions of yours will continue.

Self is an illusion. Its not really there.. Its more of an assumption than anything else.
You keep telling me you can't find it. Do you think its hiding? If so, then look deeper for it.
Uncover every rock, turn over every stone... LOOK.
This is not an understanding...... you have to actually SEE it. Literally. Physicially.

Just stop what you're doing now.. and look.
Look like the video talks about how to look.

There's no you. Is it true?

[Esmeralda]

Hi Bill,

are you finding this iniquity good?

Yes, I really am. There is something special about really taking the time, and not trying so hard - there is more of a settling in to the looking, if that makes sense. Am very grateful to you for taking the time to do this.

That's not quite what I was referrring to...
Im talking about normal everyday life and what is in your awareness.

Sorry. There's clearly a bit of a fixation here, trying to see the absence of self..:)

Is there something out there there to be 'seen' that you can't see like other people?
Is there some special vision you don't have?
Is there something real to be seen that is ellusive to you??

No, nobody sees things that I don't in that regard - anything available to be seen to others is available to me too.

What is wrong with this moment as it is?

Nothing wrong to be found anywhere.

So what if it comes back... can't you just 'look' again?

Yes, of course. I think I was under the impression that once it has been seen through, it won't come back?

Why do you want something different?

Good question. I actually don't think I can answer that. I'm not even sure if I want something different, or if the belief that 'this' isn't it then leads me to think I want something different.

If this moment were just let be as it is.... would there be any 'wanting' or problem?

No, there wouldn't be.

Can an illusion see thru itself?

No, it can't.

Until this is really gotten.. the questions of yours will continue.

Yes, I can see that. And I'm not sure why it is gotten either :/

You keep telling me you can't find it. Do you think its hiding?

No, I know it's not hiding.

There's no you. Is it true?

Yes it is. When looking, there are only the senses and the noticing of the senses. There is no personal story of Esme there. But then the chattering starts, and the personal story gets revived, very quickly. Is that how it is? Does the personal story of Bill appear for you?

With lots and lots of appreciation. Thank you Bill.

[Bill]

hi Esme,

There's no you. Is it true?

Yes it is. When looking, there are only the senses and the noticing of the senses. There is no personal story of Esme there. But then the chattering starts, and the personal story gets revived, very quickly. Is that how it is? Does the personal story of Bill appear for you?

Yes, of course it does.. none of this disappears.
The personal story is here... where would it go?
And yes at times I get caught up in it. Anger, sadness and frustration can still come up.
But usually not for long.
Esme.... nothing changes.... why should it?
The mind and attention flits around to many things and doesn't just stay focused on one idea or thing.
Just like it is for you now.
What you are seeing and experiencing IS reality.

This is all very subtle. Look at how the mind is trying to find that missing piece...
See Esme.. that even when you think you're trying to SEE, there is still just THIS.
This reality is front and center and always right here...
It can't not be seen. Its always here.. But it can be not recognized.
See how your mind is telling you that no, this isn't it... its got to be more, or different.
Or it's this state. Or that state. Or some other feeling than what you are feeling right now.
When in reality it is right here and has always been right here.
Its simply whatever is the case right now.
The mind is going to always want more. Notice it always wanting more.
It wants a formula... if I do this..... then this.... then that... Awakening!!

But its not like that.
Its really nothing. Like nothing at all.
Just notice what has always been here.
And there's no one to notice it even.
There is only this, the seeing of this, just as it is.

**********************************

As you move around in your normal activities the rest of the day and tomorrow, check and see if you can find a self moving the body around.
Walking, driving, typing, dressing yourself, etc.
Is there a self or an entity living your life?
Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?
Big difference.
Just look at the evidence. In your daily life, in all your actions, keep returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around. Keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns and directs the body.
Report back what you find.

[Esmeralda]

Hi Bill,

Thank you so much for clarifying that. That is really helpful.

Is there a self or an entity living your life?
Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?

I've spent the last two days really looking this. And I noticed that there is no difference between my hand twitching just before I go to sleep (which I would have considered an involuntary movement) and my hand reaching up to scratch an itch on my cheek or my hand grabbing a shampoo bottle (which I would have considered voluntary movements).

So basically, it's like I'm on autopilot most of the time, doing my everyday stuff and every now and then remembering to look for the doer....Which isn't there. And so yes, there are just thoughts about everything. There is the assumption that I am brushing my hair or that I am making coffee, but no....I'm not. It's just happening.

[Bill]

Hello there Esme,

So basically, it's like I'm on autopilot most of the time, doing my everyday stuff and every now and then remembering to look for the doer....Which isn't there. And so yes, there are just thoughts about everything. There is the assumption that I am brushing my hair or that I am making coffee, but no....I'm not. It's just happening.

Yes, and also, is 'I' any more than an assumption. Is it any more than that in reality?
Can it be found in reality? Can it be pinned down and pointed to with certainty?


I don't usually quote other people but am going to as I saw an excellent piece by Tony Parsons:

All there is - is this. Oneness is being this . . . whatever is apparently happening . . . reading these words, breathing, blood coursing through the body, sounds being heard, thoughts coming and going and feelings in the body - the sense of sitting on a seat maybe. Here is oneness being aliveness as this.
No effort is needed for that aliveness to be. Nobody is doing aliveness. Is anybody doing sitting on a chair? Thinking is oneness thinking "I don't get where this is going", or "this is too simple". All is simply aliveness, oneness, being. It cannot be taght or achieved. Who is apart from being to achieve being? Who can lose or gain this when this is all there is? Resisting oneness is oneness resisting. Seeking oneness is oneness seeking itself.
Aliveness is oneness apparently happening. Aliveness is being alive. There is only being and the nature of that being is emptiness and fullness, nothing and everything, movement and repose.
In that wholeness arises the idea "I am a separate individual". This seems to be the beginning of a dream called "me being someone in a world with which I have to negotiate".

When would be a good time to take a Look?

------------------------------------

Its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.

This is a little koan we use sometimes...
Can you comment on it?

[Esmeralda]

Hi Bill,

Yes, and also, is 'I' any more than an assumption. Is it any more than that in reality?
Can it be found in reality? Can it be pinned down and pointed to with certainty?

No to all of the above. :)
I can't pin it down, nor can I point to it with certainty. As soon as I look for it, it's like there is a deconstruction...As elusive as a thought, which can't be pinned down either.

Thank you for the quote and the koan. May I sit with it for a day or two? I would like to comment, but as I read it, nothing arises. Well, laughter arose, but I have no words yet. Maybe I won't have any in the next few days either. Every time I read it, I just start laughing. Yes, I can see that thought does not think. And since I is a thought and thought does not think....Well, then the thought I is definitely not the I. And since the I only exist in thoughts, the I is a thought, that doesn't think. I feel like I'm in a dr Seuss book here, this is really really funny!!

When would be a good time to take a Look?

How about now?

[Bill]

Hello Esme,

I wasn't sure if you were going to respond more on that koan or not...
Looks like you were waiting for me. :)
I liked what you wrote about it. Yes, it is funny.. and also very simple.
and we complicate it endlessly....

Are you still feeling like you are apart from this reality?
....like you are close but not quite there?
Or is this resolved now?
Can you see that whatever life is.... that is 'you' also?
Not the little ego you..... no.. but the one who's reading these words right now.

What else is going on for you?
If you could give me a summary of what you feel is not clear or incomplete.. that would be good.

[Esmeralda]

Hi Bill,

I figured that if I sat a bit longer with the koan, I'd come up with something really insightful to say about it.... But all I can say is Yes.
Like if you pointed out the window and told me that the sky was blue and the grass was green, I'd nod in agreement.
With nothing to add.
And maybe I would giggle a bit, because it's so obvious.
And the same is kind of happening here.

I am not feeling separate from reality; there is only reality. It is all clear - dare I say it?? - right now nothing is incomplete.
I think with that koan, the jig was up.
I'm still laughing at it, it is just brilliant!!

Thank you Bill. Really, thank you.
Lots of gratitude, Esme x

[Bill]

Hi Esme,

Looks to me like the koan helped to unravel things for you.
That's a nice thing when that happens, and Im glad for you.

Let's go ahead and keep this open.. I'll get notified whenever you respond so even if some time passes
feel free to post anything here that might come up for you.
Its very normal that more things will come up... they will. :)

Best regards,
Bill

[Esmeralda]

Hi Bill,

Thank you for the open invitation. I will probably take you up on it!
I have had these 'shifts' before, but somehow have found myself back looking out from the perspective of a contracted self....Albeit never as contracted as I was before I started looking, so perhaps there will never be a full return to this. Actually, I know there couldn't be, because even when there is contracting, self still can't be found. I am very grateful for you leaving the dialogue open. Thank you so much for working with me Bill.

Gratitude and appreciation in heaps, Esme :)