1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No (E). There is a constructed self-idea, which surfaces fairly often, woven by thoughts (T). There is a long-lived tendency for identification with this (belief in the thought of a self that’s “me”) (T). That’s that is directly experienced (E). Looking again (E). Yep, there is nothing apart from experiences and thoughts, no actual self to be found (E). Contentment and calm. At rest. Smiling. A bit moved (E).
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, how it starts and works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now. (Don't forget here that I am more interested in the experience, rather than theories).
There is experience (E). Then there is a small physical constriction (E) as an idea of the mind becomes “true”, as the body and mind latches on and gets attached to it (E). The thoughts get fuelled and very quickly weave around this “truth”, as if it were a foundation to stand on (E). As if there was someone who needed to stand (T). There is investment into it, by the thoughts, as well as the physical body (E). Most of the time, there are long periods of this kind of investments, identifications (T). Over time, the investments of thought patterns grow increasingly complex, with many ideas woven together (T). Then the identification process, protecting the idea of the self, gets more solid (E). It can be seen through, but has the habit of reforming itself (E).
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Relief, contentment, presence, calm (E). There is more clarity now, more rest (E). The seeing through is closer at hand (E). The writing down of experiences creates a stronger tendency to be with what is, and take the concept of a self less seriously as it keeps showing up (T). A couple of insights were more striking: That there actually is no experiencer to be found, and the clearer view of thoughts and beliefs as opposed to direct experiencing (T).
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
I was fairly open to the looking as I started to write here, and not starting from zero (T). However, the questions throughout the dialogue made me look more intentionally and repeatedly than I have before, which really paid off! (T) I saw through more, and it got clearer (T). Gratitude. Sighing. Smiling. Moved. (E).
No (E). What would be labelled decisions, intentions, choices, and controlling, are just appearances, like everything else (E). Probably the result of other things (T). There is an assumption that there are a lot more reasons for things than the ones that I can perceive consciously (T). That’s recognized as a belief (E). The direct experience is that there are always more precedings and more followings (E) – constructed as “causing” and “being effects of”; T – the closer I look (E). Endlessly, hypnotically, until the limits of the senses (E).5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Please try to describe the process as best you can, even if gropingly. Don't forget to give some practical examples from your everyday experience (even if there is no real 'you'!)
If I intend to go to bed, this intention can (somehow) initiate a chain of actions (E). The action of standing up, followed by walking to the bathroom, brushing my teeth etc (E). Small decisions are made along the way, such as wether or not to refill the water glass tonight or bug my husband that he, too should get to bed (E). These “intentions” and “decisions” are experienced, when I look, as triggered by the previous event (E). It always seems like there is something right before, that initiated whatever activity happened to emerge (E).
Responisibily is were the choice is (T). That’s a thought, of course, an idea (T). Interestingly, “responsibility” only computes on the level of thought (E). Curiosity, amusement (E). Direct experience comes up with nothing (E). More amusement (E). Enjoying it (E). There is no responsibility, there is just this instant of experience (E).What are you responsible for?
Moving into the realm of thought (T), just for fun, and because it’s so tempting (E): There is no self that can be held responsible, no self that owns a choice (T&E). It would be like holding the stream responsible for it’s course (T). I guess you can say that a rock is “responsible” for the stream going one way or another, so it’s just a way of saying which conditions caused a certain outcome (T). To say that I am responsible for my actions could be interpreted to mean that the causes that trigger the actions made by this body are largely within the system of this same body and mind (T). They are of course also triggered by outside factors (T).
There is some pragmatism to conceptualise responsibility (T). Like informing the system: “This is the subpart of the universe in which this goes one way or another” (T).
An example from my own life: I work as a clinical psychologist and will often put pressure on clients in this way, making sure they see that their life choices is their responsibility (T): “Starting to face your anxiety and stop avoiding uncomfortable situations, in order to move toward your life goals, is a choice that only you can make (T). I can’t say wether or not it’s worth it to you. Is your suffering enough for you to make a change, even if it’s scary?” (T)
Of course, the client is just as much without a choosing self as I am (T). Yet the intervention that is (choice-lessly) triggered to be an output from my system, is often a helpful input when it comes to initiating a choice toward better mental health in the client (T). So the “accepting responsibility” leads to a good outcome for the client, since it mobilises the system in the direction of changing self-destructive habits (T).
Philosophy, this last bit (T&E). Thoughts running wild, drawing conclusions, realizing and declaring the “truth”, based on the experience of no-responsibility (T&E). It was a fun game, stimulating and playful, but more of a constricting activity than the looking, like I lost touch with lots of experience (E). I had the sense of narrowing, becoming less rich in my experience (E). The mind has a natural striving, it seems, toward narrowing things down and boxing them in, with the goal of declaring “This is it!” (T&E). Useful, many times (T), but I’m glad to see more clearly what’s going on (E). It’s getting more tangible how the mind affects the whole system, when it’s doing it’s thing (T). Excitement (E) about this further clarification (T).
This is so much fun! I have really enjoyed the time spent answering your inquiries. It’s been rewarding, almost surprisingly so. I could keep going, just to spend time with it, enjoying the clarification. But I also understand if you need to move on to help others too.6) Anything to add?
