Thread for Esme

[Bill]

Hello Esme,

Let's try starting on this forum for now...
we can move it if needed.

Please come in and give as good a description of where you are with things.
You'd mentioned you're still searching.
What are you searching for?
What would things feel like if you were not searching.

You know how this site works, so we needn't go over that.
Please give me a few good paragraphs summing up what's up for you right now.
How are you seeing things?

Bill

[Esmeralda]

Hello Bill,

Thank you.

What are you searching for?

Still searching for the truth I guess; for seeing through the illusion. Awakening.

What would things feel like if you were not searching.

At this point in my life, seeking is not as fervent and desperate as it once was. But if I wasn't searching, I guess there would be more ease, because there wouldn't be the feeling of needing to get somewhere, no striving or attempting something.

Please give me a few good paragraphs summing up what's up for you right now.
How are you seeing things?

I'll try to explain best I can... How do I see things? Well, there is still a fairly substantial sense of a "me", although I cannot find one upon looking. But somehow, mind has not collapsed into this seeing, and there is some sort of holding on to the me, myself and I. Years of non-duality inquiry and practices have certainly helped to loosening up this sense, which was extremely rigid in the past. But it seems that no matter how much I look, meditate or engage in other practices, the shift or seeing I was hoping for just won't happen. Sometimes, I do nothing for certain periods of time, just live my life and get on with things, and that is fine too, not really much of a difference from when I am actively engaging in whichever practice I figure might take me one step closer to the ultimate seeing.

I think at the same time though, and I don't know why exactly, but there is definitely a fear present too. I've read many explanations as to why this is, but I am so sick of theories at this stage, I don't even want to go deeper into any of them :)
I suppose that ultimately, it is a fear of the unknown, of losing something. Fear has been a prominent emotion for much of my life. And so, when I say that I really really want this, I guess I'm not 100% honest, because there is clearly a resistance too, even though I don't know why, nor can I really find it either when I look for it, but it is just sensed to be there. And so I don't want you to think that I am wasting your time - I just want to be fully honest with you. It's kind of like the child who really wants to jump into the swimming pool head first, but doesn't really dare to.

How do I see things? Well... As separate, for sure. My world is definitely not non-dual. Sometimes there might be little glimpses, or should I say absences of boundaries, but mostly not. Also, I think that because I was such a serial seeker for so many years, I have all these ideas and concepts with a fairly decent intellectual understanding. Which unfortunately rarely translates into an experiential one.

[Bill]

Hello Esme,


Thank you for laying out very nicely where you are with these things.
Let's take a look at a few things you wrote.
My style in guiding is not to take each thing you said and respond to it...
but maybe to pick out one or two items and take those as a place to expound on.

First thing.. you've heard many times that you already are what you're searching for.
I can assure you that this is the case for you too.
What you seek... you really already have.... but up till now, you don't think that's true
and you keep looking for this 'thing' or 'answer' or 'realizaton' that will stop the seeking.
None of these will ever be found in this seeking that will do that.
The only way I know is to see, without a doubt that you are this, that you are seeking..
and also that when you look deeply into the "I" question.. you come up blank.
So this is where I'll be pointing you.
You really already know all this.
We'll see if we can help uncover it.

You don't need to worry about dropping the self or I, that is totally unnecessary.
All we want to do is see it for what it truly is.... a mask... an illusion that has been bought as the truth.
No practice or mantra or meditation or teaching is needed to see this.
None... Really!
What must be done.. and you know this too.. is to actually 'look'.
I'll do my best to help you learn what this looking is about.. and how you can do it.
You have to do it. There's no other way.
Just look. At what's here. Just stop.. and LOOK.

As far as feeling separate.... don't worry about it at all.
Whatever you're feeling right now is 'it', and ok, even if its the feeling of separateness.
These kind of concerns seem to go away after seeing thru the illusion as its seen
there's no one to really be concerned about feeling oneness or separate.
What Im getting at.. is that the seeking of a state is not where we going.

You mentioned fear and resistance being something you feel is in your way.
Let's start with this and see what can be found.
I don't really care to look at the 'whys' of fear..
but I do want you to bring out what fear you do have around this?
What is it that you are fearful of in this type of inquiry?
What do you feel might happen that you'd be afraid of?

Please watch this short video on 'looking' a few times.
Respond back with a good description of what you feel this 'looking' is.
Its the most important thing in this process.. we'll be coming back to it again and again.

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

[Esmeralda]

Hi Bill,

So sorry for not replying sooner - I am subscribed to the topic but never got any notification.
I loved your post by the way...lots of resonance. Anyway, I digress. :)

What is it that you are fearful of in this type of inquiry?

I think there is a belief that I might go crazy; that somehow this line of inquiry is tapping into some kind of hidden and buried demons that might get unleashed and take over. I am a bit embarrassed even writing it, but yeah - there is definitely a fear of losing control over some sort of inner darkness that so far has been held down and controlled. Controlled by what, I ask. By thoughts, say thought. Yep. I can indeed hear how that sounds. And yet, I know that the looking, the noticing, awareness; whatever we call it, is completely benign, a neutral observing. ut minds says don't let go, it's not safe. Argh.

What do you feel might happen that you'd be afraid of?

I think that part of this fear is that of a loss, that somehow losing 'myself' would lead to bewilderness, to nihilism, to a nothingness. There is again the strong sense of me not wanting to be lost or out of control, even if I know that I control very little.

Respond back with a good description of what you feel this 'looking' is.

OK. I want to try best I can to do this in my own words, rather than parroting what I have read and heard elsewhere. This looking is the background as well as the foreground of 'me'. It sees and notices before thought labels. But because thoughts and emotions arise within this looking, for me, it is mostly taken to be the thoughts and emotions.
I know I can't separate it from the thoughts and emotions, and there have been times when I have actually seen that it isn't the thoughts and the emotions; times when there was an observing of the arising and subsiding cognitions and physical sensations without any identification with them. It's the knowing that knows, that is unchangeable whether there are thought-filled or thought-free states. But a lot easier to notice during the thought-free states, for me anyway.

Esme x

[Bill]

Hello Esme,

Its only important to write back as you can take a good look at the questions.
A strict timeframe is not needed or wanted... you've been at this for a while.... I'd rather you be with
the question until you really just feel the answer coming out easily and not feel rushed to meet
some time restriction.

So there are beliefs around this that you will uncover something deep and dark lurking within you?
And maybe along with that other feelings of losing control and becoming helpless or bewildered.
These would certainly be scary things to look at an might keep you from taking a good look.
Im not sure how accessible these feeling are for you.... whether you can see them all the time,
or some of the time, or only once in a great while.
What I'd like you to do the next time you get a hit from one of them... is to be with the feeling...
Let it come in as best you can without pushing it down or away.
Then welcome it in as a friend and try to have a talk with it (the feeling)
Its there for your protection... ask it what its protecting..
If you can get to a place of calm with it... stop...
and look behind the feeling to see if you can see anything real
behind it.. LOOK. Is there anything real there? What is there behind it?
Let me know what you discover with this.


Good on describing the looking. Its simply noticing what's here.
You've been doing it your whole life.. as have I and everyone else.
Its always going on, whether we are aware of it consciously or not.
We are always taking everything in.. our attempt here is to simply
notice this and to 'just look' at what comes up.
Its very simple and easy if just let be as it is.
We simply want to notice that we have been and are looking.

I'd also like to ask you this question:

What is your reaction when I say that the you that you think you are is not real?
That there is no I/you in real life; none.... zero.
That if looked for, it can't be found.
That there's just life... flowing.
Just what is.

What comes up for you?
Feelings, thoughts, reactions, sensations.... list all and any that come for you.

[Esmeralda]

Hi Bill,

Thank you. I am taking my time with this, as I feel that there might have been a rush with the looking in the past... But I will always be back with answers, so thank you for being patient.

Its there for your protection... ask it what its protecting..
If you can get to a place of calm with it... stop...
and look behind the feeling to see if you can see anything real
behind it.. LOOK. Is there anything real there? What is there behind it?
Let me know what you discover with this.

It's funny, because there seems to be a few different fears, although I know fear is fear, but n a couple of different contexts so to speak. One is fear of annihilation. This often arises at night, during the witching hour. The thought "one day I won't be here any more", followed by fear, fear that "I" will cease to exist. The other fear is a bit different. A few weeks ago, I was reading Ilona's blog and decided to do some of the deep looking she was doing with a few people. And so I asked fear, what it is protecting. I've never really done this before, and I didn't expect an answer But actually, there was a very clear sense of protection for this little girl (me) who was so viciously bullied for so many years, all through school...and I remembered the feeling of fear as I approached the school yard every day; it is the exact same feeling as now, located in solar plexus, warning of impending doom. I would say that so far, I've only managed to half-look behind it, if that make sense. No, there is of course nothing there, at best I can find some residual physical sensation of discomfort, but that is all. I will keep looking.

What is your reaction when I say that the you that you think you are is not real?
That there is no I/you in real life; none.... zero.
That if looked for, it can't be found.
That there's just life... flowing.
Just what is.

What comes up for you?
Feelings, thoughts, reactions, sensations.... list all and any that come for you.

Sadness, anger and frustration because I can't see it, really see it. Feeling stupid because I can't see it. Blaming the fear that I believe is preventing me from really, really looking. Wanting to give up and just try to accept that I'm not courageous enough to dive in, jealous of those who see it after just a little bit of pointing from a guide. And at the same time, knowing that I have looked, at least enough to have seen that I can't find an I, yet that doesn't seem to be enough for mind to recognise it. Burning and yearning to see, a real push-pull going on. Finding the sentence "That there's just life... flowing." so beautiful, wanting it to be true in my own direct experience.

[Bill]

Hello Esme,

Being that you've been here a few times.. I would really like you to take good 'looks' at each
question and not feel like you're rushed in any way. Just let the answer come up, and do remember
there's no right or wrong in any of this.. just what is coming up for you now.

On the fears, I'd like you to do this as you remember.... that as a fear comes up.. allow yourself
to be with it and not push it away. Talk to the fear.. and keep looking behind the fear to see if there
is anything real, other than a thought is there...Even this fear and feeling of 'being bullied'...
You know that happened a long time ago and no one is bullying you now, except your thoughts about it.
You obviously made a lot of beliefs about how things are when all that happened.
Try to see and uncover what it is that you decided was 'true' about life and the world and you from this.
See how these powerful beliefs can be identified with so strongly..
That is one part of this..... seeing the beliefs.
The other is finding the 'one' that the beliefs apply to.

Who is it that feels this fear?
Can you find a self, if you look, who feels these fears?
Or are these just strong powerful thoughts that you have believed to be true?
Who is the one who believes these thoughts?
If you just stop and let the thoughts die down on their own... and 'be'.... what's there?

Finding the sentence "That there's just life... flowing." so beautiful, wanting it to be true in my own direct experience.

This is absolutely true not only for you.. but for everyone.
You are life itself. There's no question really about that.
When I say 'you' I'm not talking about the self, the me, the I.
You have bought into a lie.. the lie says that 'you' are your thoughts only.
That you're just this little me.. blown about by the winds of cause and effect.
But is that really the case?
Looking to the mind to ease all of this only confounds the issue.. the answer is not in the mind.
The mind says... "you are just this" and we believe it... without question.

What are 'you' really? Are you just the mind and thoughts?
Stop now and just look... what do you 'see' here?
Is there not just what is going on around you?
What about a 'you'? Can you see one anywhere?
If not, what do you see? If yes, describe it.

[Esmeralda]

Hi Bill

Who is it that feels this fear?

No entity can be found...Just a sense of contraction and of course the physical sensations of the flight response.

Can you find a self, if you look, who feels these fears?

No, I really can't. And yet, when it appears, not only is it hard to look, but again there is the "me-sense"; that there is someone who is experiencing this fear.

Or are these just strong powerful thoughts that you have believed to be true?

Yes. I say yes, because I truly can't find any self. But this is not seen all the time, if that makes sense?

Who is the one who believes these thoughts?

Yeah, that is a great question. I actually can't answer that, because I don't know. Something believes it, but I don't know what.

If you just stop and let the thoughts die down on their own... and 'be'.... what's there?

The senses. Aliveness. Knowing, noticing. Peace.

What are 'you' really? Are you just the mind and thoughts?

No, because when in a thought-free state, there is clearly existence, living, doing. The 'aliveness' in me does not depend on thoughts and the mind.

Stop now and just look... what do you 'see' here?
Is there not just what is going on around you?
What about a 'you'? Can you see one anywhere?
If not, what do you see? If yes, describe it.

No, I can't see a 'me' anywhere. I can see the laptop screen, hands typing, the sky trough the window, objects such a furniture and books around me. So yes, in that sense, there is only what is going on around me. Hmm. I never looked at it like that.

[Bill]

Hello Esme,

No, I can't see a 'me' anywhere. I can see the laptop screen, hands typing, the sky trough the window, objects such a furniture and books around me. So yes, in that sense, there is only what is going on around me. Hmm. I never looked at it like that.

Isn't this always the case?
That there is just what is going on?
Yes, I know, the mind/self/I is there babbling on much of the time also.. but prior to that... is
there just not what is simply happening? The noticing of this, is what the 'looking' is.
We're not trying to shut the mind up or negate any of that.. we just want to notice all of what is going on.

Let's do a short exercise. I don't know how much of this you've done but it won't hurt to repeat anything again.

Right where you are now.. give a short description of what's happening within and around you. Be as descriptive as possible. What are you noticing? Seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, tasting, sensing? Take a minute or two and list out what you notice.

Be on the lookout for any strong fears that pop up while we are doing this dialogue. If they happen when you are in a convenient place to take a deeper look at them.. please do as was described in the post above.

What is the difference between an understanding of no self being here...and actually seeing it?

[Bill]

This is a piece written by one of our guides on 'looking'
for your information only.
-------------------------------------------------------


Dear Seeker, It's Never Easy to Write This....

I'm not sure how many ways I can tell you this, and so most times I just have to repeat myself. You don't listen. Thoughts crowd out the very ability to listen to direction. And! You often become frustrated with this direction and walk away from our inquiry thinking that the pointer can't be of much use. You assume that the person giving it is just wrong about what it is you need to hear in order to see this. But the truth is,

You're wrong.

There's a reason why this particular pointer is the most effective I've come across. It's direct. Blunt. It leaves no room for discussion, and my role is to end the discussion entirely.

I don't want a dialogue with you!


Don't be offended by that.


While a dialogue may help you to UNDERSTAND what's being said, that understanding isn't what's going to get this done. I'll tell you what will and I'll give it my best shot, knowing that it's worked for hundreds of people already, maybe thousands. Here it is, so listen up.

Just Look.


That's it. It's the best and most thorough pointer you're going to find if you could just stop long enough to do what's directed.

Now, you have to ask yourself this... how is it that this pointer can be it. The one. Everything. The KEY? Go ahead and ask that question. Test it out. Tear it up. How is that IT?

And when you hit a brick wall, just maybe you'll do what's being asked which is to notice that a speck of dust is more real than the self. A droplet of dew is more real than the self has ever been or can ever be.

How is that true? In what way is that true?

When the answer comes, just stop and take that in. Then scan that brain for all of the teachings which say that this is simple. Childlike. Humble. Think of all the accounts of those who've 'gotten it' and said that they couldn't believe how simple it is. And the look of wonder? It's not because they're suddenly seeing pixie dust or rainbows. It's because they stopped to follow the directive, and then they saw the truth of REALITY AS IT IS.

Now....


Just.

Look.

Look at a picture on your wall.

What is seen?

What is absent?

Look at anything.

Anywhere.

Any time.

What is seen?

What is not?

[Esmeralda]

Hi Bill,

Isn't this always the case?
That there is just what is going on?

Yes, yes I guess it is. Yes, definitely.

Right where you are now.. give a short description of what's happening within and around you. Be as descriptive as possible. What are you noticing? Seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, tasting, sensing? Take a minute or two and list out what you notice.

Pressure on my lap from laptop. Pressure on my back from having been sitting in this chair for too long. A gentle buzzing from the laptop. Sounds of keys as I am typing. Rain outside, dripping from the gutter pipe. Banging in the distance from the neighbours house. Laptop screen, fireplace, rug and puppy's chewed up pencil on the floor. Heat from the laptop. No smells or tastes at the moment. Heavy eyelids, slight pain in the right temple.

What is the difference between an understanding of no self being here...and actually seeing it?

Hmm. Well, I guess I think that I understand that there is no self here, because I can't find one no matter how much I try to locate it. The belief is that once it is really seen, it can't be unseen and this contracting into the 'me-sense' won't happen; how could the story of a me ever be believed again it it had been seen to be false? Well, that's my belief around it anyway :)

And thank you so much for posting that piece, I have read it before but it was really great to read it again.

[Bill]

Hello Esme,

Thanks for your quick response back... some observations...

Pressure on my lap from laptop. Pressure on my back from having been sitting in this chair for too long. A gentle buzzing from the laptop. Sounds of keys as I am typing. Rain outside, dripping from the gutter pipe. Banging in the distance from the neighbours house. Laptop screen, fireplace, rug and puppy's chewed up pencil on the floor. Heat from the laptop. No smells or tastes at the moment. Heavy eyelids, slight pain in the right temple.

Perfect. This noticing is also called 'looking'. Just seeing what's here.
Do this again... and look for a 'self' or an 'I' being there.
We can really only put our attention on one thing at a time.
While you are noticing what is there.... is there any sign or view of a 'self'?
Notice when a self comes in.... it comes as a thought first.
Do this several times so you can see the 'I' thought come in.

What is the difference between an understanding of no self being here...and actually seeing it?

Hmm. Well, I guess I think that I understand that there is no self here, because I can't find one no matter how much I try to locate it. The belief is that once it is really seen, it can't be unseen and this contracting into the 'me-sense' won't happen; how could the story of a me ever be believed again it it had been seen to be false? Well, that's my belief around it anyway :)

Thats a bit of a story you wrote there.
Beliefs you have about what this is.
Wouldn't the difference be that the understanding would just be mental (thoughts) and actually seeing it would be seeing something real?

I'd like you to go thru this list and tell me any that you are in resistance to or have an issue with.
This is a list of what we've found as a group that liberation is not...
A group of guides put this together over a period of time.
Throughout the years our many guides have discovered that one of the major obstacles to the direct, clear seeing of what is already magnificently the case is a thick layer of expectations and narrative about a self’s journey towards enlightenment, built up by years and years of seeking. Getting these expectations out in the open and out of the way is an important first step. Below is a list explaining what the LU process is not:

This is not about convincing anyone of anything.
This is not a self improvement program.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, or getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, nor is it magical or mystical.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I

Esme, please read this list a few times and if anything pushes your buttons in any way.. let me know.
Look good at this, as we need to address any expectatuibs that are still around.
Be brutally honest in looking at this.

[Esmeralda]

Hi Bill,

While you are noticing what is there.... is there any sign or view of a 'self'?

No. Over the past few days, I've also looked for any sign of a self not only when I'm just noticing what is there, but also when experiencing strong emotions like anger or sadness...Still no sign or view of a self.

Do this several times so you can see the 'I' thought come in.

Thank you for pointing this out. I find that the 'I' thought is not only very subtle in its entrance, but equally sudden. Like an ambush; not properly reflected on previously. I have found this really helpful to look at over the past few days.

Wouldn't the difference be that the understanding would just be mental (thoughts) and actually seeing it would be seeing something real?

Yes. Of course. I think that is what I was trying to get to, but got tangled in. So far, I think my understanding has only been mental.

I have been going through the list several times. Initially, I thought I agreed with half of it, as in having no issue with half of the statements. Funnily enough though, I now only agree with the first statement (as in no issue) and also the one about money, all the others stir up either resistance, sadness or a 'but but but' thought-chain.
So, to be honest, I feel sad, disappointed and confused reading it. Because deep down, there has obviously been a wish for certain emotions to disappear, for freedom - not necessarily *from* emotions and intense feelings, but rather from the beliefs around them.... And so I know that a lot of awakened people (for lack of a better word) don't see themselves as special, and in fact often point out how very ordinary this seeing is, but *I* see them as special, because they see something I don't. So sure, in that way, there is the belief of gaining something extra - the insight into reality. And so, a lot of things that are on the list are things that know already - as in I have heard and see it being said before - but I don't know them to be true in my heart clearly, since the reaction to reading them is that of sadness, disappointment and confusion.

[Bill]

Hi Esme,

Lets look at a few things you wrote first:

So, to be honest, I feel sad, disappointed and confused reading it. Because deep down, there has obviously been a wish for certain emotions to disappear, for freedom - not necessarily *from* emotions and intense feelings, but rather from the beliefs around them

Ok, I want you to look closely.... and not give a quick answer to this...
Who or what is wanting this 'freedom'? Just be with the question and find who or what is wanting this.

And so I know that a lot of awakened people (for lack of a better word) don't see themselves as special, and in fact often point out how very ordinary this seeing is, but *I* see them as special, because they see something I don't.

I can assure you that you are 100% what all the rest of them are.
There is no difference at all on a fundamental level.
When you stop searching, you will see this...
That seems to be the question then....
For you to see this, you have to take the look yourself.
That 'look' can really only happen now. There is no preparation or prerequisite needed.
Just as you are now.. is perfect for seeing this.
The wish for a final “done” is surprise, surprise a story of the final carrot to be reached, a reason for the fictional “I” to try to get “somewhere.” Everything is constantly changing, moving, and interacting. There is no “done” in the real world. If you want to be at home, be at home in the flow....now.

This isn’t about making the sense of being alive stronger or experienced more clearly. It’s simply about seeing what is real when you are not subject to the “I” illusion. Just like you did the looking in the previous post.

_________________________________________________

Here's an exercise I found which may open something for you
its a good one.
read it thru a few times and try to it as best you can....

First, find a comfortable chair and sit....
Slowly relax into a 360 degree reception of sensory data around you: what you see, smell, hear, taste and feel against your body. For example: feet feel warm with some pressure against them, armchair felt against back, etc. sights, smells, sounds around you.. take them all in. Lose yourself so that only sensations remain. Listen to the noise of the refrig or other white noise, intensively like never before. Let the mind register everything, but relax from the need to label anything as "a thing".

If you do this exercise well enough, you will end up in a very relaxed state of being where there is no identity of 'you' present. You are relaxed from the "I" thought. Then you can notice how "I" thoughts start to come back, but don't believe those thoughts, just stay relaxed and look at them.
Now tell me from your own direct experience:

Are you able to find Esme anywhere? Sensations happen, the mind registers everything, but is Esme anywhere?

There will be a sense of aliveness or I-am-ness, but there's nothing personal about that. You can trust that aliveness, it's like your anchor to authentic life.

The exercise 'works' every time a person does it sincerely.
There is a subtle change of tone afterwards.

Let me know what happens for you.

[Esmeralda]

Hello Bill,

Thank you. I will look at the things you have suggested and get back to you. I very much look forward to dong the exercises. Thank you so much for bearing with me, it is much appreciated.