NoLabel requests a guide

[NoLabel]

How do you see choices and decisions happening?
Going right or left?
Tea or coffee?
What to write as an answer?
Find something simple to look at, and describe what you see going on.

Again, a decision has to be made of what to write as an answer. The mind calculates all the data. Trying to find an example of decision, but not a need of a decision is coming right now. There is calmness. There is music and the mind is searching for a decision to make that is not necessary right now. But it searches for one because you‘ve put it as a task before.

In the morning there was the observation of the actual moment I would decide to get off the bed. The moment there was the observation of the actual point of decision, I was just keep lie down on the bed. Suddenly, I switched the side I was on the bed and I was already getting up.

Now there is the thought “I have to start working on this project”. Another thought comes up “I still have enough time, I will get something to eat first and later I will start working on the project.”

On the same time small decisions and actions taking place without any “me” to think about it: “Hand scratching face, drinking small zips of tea, the vision is wondering around etc.”

As regards bigger decisions, yesterday I had two offers for work at the same time. In any case there will be some advantages and some disadvantages. There was a calculation of the facts and a decision was made according to the most beneficial choice for this moment in life.

And - if there is no you - what do you think you are?

That’s the trickiest part. I don’t have any specific label of what I “am”. Do you think anyone could have a specific label of what he/she is according to here/now?

The sense I have some times is something like this: If we think ourselves as a computer with the hardware (body), software (mind), hard drive (memory), programs (automatic actions of the system) etc… the only thing I could say that is the real “me” is the electricity. With no electricity there would be no life/no action on the computer.
Tell me if this example make sense.

Also another thing that I would like to make clear and maybe also answers to what “I am” is the following: Decisions happen on their own, it is just another thought. And we finally move to some direction with one way or another. There, I find a conflict between instinct and mind. I think “instinct” (what we would do in the jungle without being identified with language and mind) can’t be wrong. On the other hand, analysis of the mind, that is using logic, and puts away the instinct, most of the times can be wrong. Do you think that makes sense or is it just another scenario?

Ps: Also some days there is clarity and some others not. Should we have clarity every day? If we try to have clarity we force ourselves out of here and now. We just have to accept that there is no clarity right now.

Hug!

[Canfora]

Hi Nolabel!

It seems you can see there is no you deciding what to decide, what to think, what to do?
Good.

That’s the trickiest part. I don’t have any specific label of what I “am”. Do you think anyone could have a specific label of what he/she is according to here/now?

Well, there are lots of labels flying around: no self, awareness, emptiness, buddha nature, god nature, life, experience. I was checking if you where replacing one belief for another one. And it seems you are not :)

Also another thing that I would like to make clear and maybe also answers to what “I am” is the following: Decisions happen on their own, it is just another thought. And we finally move to some direction with one way or another. There, I find a conflict between instinct and mind. I think “instinct” (what we would do in the jungle without being identified with language and mind) can’t be wrong. On the other hand, analysis of the mind, that is using logic, and puts away the instinct, most of the times can be wrong. Do you think that makes sense or is it just another scenario?

I understand what you are saying but I think that wrong and right are labels we use to make sense of what is going on, that's all. There is no inherent wrongness or rightness in our life events, although we try to make sense of them to get a sense of control. Instinct and logic can both sent us in the right or the wrong direction - if we start thinking things should be different than they are. And I believe that logic can trick you lots of time. I remember many situations where I was 100% sure I was right when I was only seeing things from my limited point of view. And that mistrust in what I was thinking was one of the things that made me seek for answers. Does what I'm saying make sense to you?

So... do you have questions, do you have doubts? Or can you say with a big, fat yes that there is no you :) ?

[NoLabel]

Hi Again Sandra!

I was away for a while. Many things have happened (all for the best). Also your last question made me think really seriously!

So... do you have questions, do you have doubts? Or can you say with a big, fat yes that there is no you :) ?

I could see clearly that thoughts, decisions, actions etc happen on their own. That there is no thinker, decider etc. But, again the question “there is no you”, I didn’t know how to interpret it. What it means there is no “Me”?. So, I gave some more time for it. (I don’t want to fool myself or you).

One night after I got home really late, I was full of energy, and there was lot of conscience at that moment. I didn’t have the need to open the computer, I didn’t want to read a book, I didn’t want to go to sleep. So I just sat on my window watching the sunrise.

The following realizations popped up one by one (maybe with a big difference between them). I was realizing one thing and after some time this realization was generating another one.

My big question all this time was who realizes all these? If the mind generates thoughts with no “Me” as a decider or controller, who is the receiver of all these realizations?

I have written them down, so here what came up:
• So, it is like the mind is programmed again (with your help of course) to not think in a way of ‘I”.
• It needs the mind-I itself to process and come to the conclusion that there is no I.
• So, this mind now, knows there is no “I”.
• And after this moment it continues to generate thoughts. But since this moment it has come to the knowledge, that there are just thoughts generated by their own.
• It is like the mind come to the realization that it is just a tool, responding to the environment, having no power or control at all.
• What follows is that the mind relaxes, knowing it does not need an owner to generate thoughts.
• All the above were written by the mind making a self analysis. Just responding to what is coming up right now… Just producing thoughts. By nobody… Thoughts are just been generated.
• ____________________________
• The next step is to “know yourself”. This existence without the filter of the self.
• With the “I” filter you cannot see the existence by itself.
• Without the “I” filter, the only thing that can be seen it is the only thing that exists: existence.
• When there is the realization that the only thing there is, is existence, there is no need for specific destination, because there is no one really to define the route/the ride.
• The only route/”path” there is, is now. There is just experience-traveling that is happening to here and now.
• Everything that can be felt/thought/ lived, it is just an unfolding of here/now.
• Now, “I” know there is no I! :)

I don’t know but that moment all these simple things were a big realization. Since that moment things were simplified a lot. Nothing is different, but now there is the knowledge that everything is unfolding on their own in this experience. “I” keep have my habits, my desires, my good and bad, but everything is like on the surface. Whatever comes up it’s an experience, good or bad.

I can see the filters that “I” have, but I know now that there are just filters were created by the identification with the “I” through this experience by so far.

The next question is if these filters can be dropped later somehow. There is the realization of the filters but there are still here. So, after knowing there is no “I” to control anything or to get rid of these filters there is the question if those filters could be drop off in the future.

Many magic things have happened since now, and synchronicity is on fire. Two days after I wrote the above, and the realization of the filters me and one friend of mine we met two girls. We were walking around and one of the girls was the perfect example of a person with no filter. At first I thought she was kind of silly, and then I realized that she was so clever and bright. She was just responding to the moment with no filter at all. She was talking to anyone we were crossing by, making the right question, and getting perfect short nice conversations with unknown people. She was like a kid, but very gentle. Nobody was offended. She was a great lesson for me.

After a long walk we sat on some ancient rock to have some coffee at the sun. After half an hour 3 musicians came next to us, and for hours were singing the same song that was changing by what it was crossing in front of them, and the main lyrics after everything that was happening was “The best of time is now, because it’s now!”

hehehhehe I was laughing all day long by all these. It was like a movie was playing that moment for hours!!!

Anyway, I have said enough for now. I can say that there is no “I”. Maybe this “yes” is not that “fat” yet but all these days there is no doubt any more. It is like there is no effort to remember that there is no “I”. It is very natural.

Tell me what you think.

Big hug!
NoLabel

[Canfora]

Hi and welcome back! Amazing post. Glad to hear about your realizations and experiences.
Crossing the gate is just a beginning. Of course life goes on and the filters can be investigated if the need to explore further arises!

In your description of your realizations you have talked a lot about mind. What do you think mind is and what do you think mind can do? Even better: check in your experience if you can find this thing, this mind. Do you see any evidence of the existence of a mind? Let me know what you find.

Also, if you don't have any doubts that there is no I, do you want to answer the 6 questions we ask to every client that sees that the self is an illusion? That's a good way to see if something more needs to be looked at or if everything is clear.

Big hug!
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra,

Once again, after our last posts, I had to travel the next day for another project. I can't answer to you know because I am on a big hurry, and there is not enough time to answer you. I will try to contact again after the 3/3 that I will be back.

Thanks again for your quick reply and sorry for the big delay of my last posts.

Nolabel

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel,

That's okay! Wishing all goes well with your travel and project!

Big hug!

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra!

I am back. I had a great time working on this project and it was a great journey.

But coming back here there is the feeling that I have forgotten everything we have said and everything I have realized.

I am not feeling sure any more to tell you with a big fat yes there is no me. It is like I don’t even get what that means any more.

“In your description of your realizations you have talked a lot about mind. What do you think mind is and what do you think mind can do? Even better: check in your experience if you can find this thing, this mind. Do you see any evidence of the existence of a mind? Let me know what you find.”

Mind for me it is like a computer. Calculates and processes all the data and comes to conclusions and decisions. I have seen that all these (conclusions, concepts, ideas, decisions) are just thoughts, that come and go. I have seen that nothing of this it is me.

But on the other hand I feel that this “I” got stronger after the last time we have talked. How can I forget so easily? I don’t know what confuses me and what I am looking for.

There is the feeling like “I was cheating while doing this inquiry” and I haven’t got it clearly yet.

I get all these on the intellectual level, but I still feel there is a shadow of “me” behind the experience. How can I make this completely clear? Reading other posts on the past, when some people were realizing there is no self, it was like everything was clear to them.
I can’t say this had happen for me too. It is like I am peeking behind the curtain but the curtain is still here.

Ps:

Crossing the gate is just a beginning. Of course life goes on and the filters can be investigated if the need to explore further arises!

I feel that it is more than this. And there is the need to investigate more.

Hug,
NoLabel

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel!

I had a great time working on this project and it was a great journey.

Happy for you.

What do you mean with "I feel that it is more than this."?

What is this "this" for you? and what would be "more" than "this"?

Hug

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra!

What do you mean with "I feel that it is more than this."?
What is this "this" for you?

Sometimes there is the feeling that I am not living life 100%. That I am not here/now totally. There are times that this “I” is back, and I am going back to the circles of the mind forgetting in a way that there is no me.

So, I guess I am looking for something that will get things more clear and I will be living life totally free. To be at here and now 100%.

Hug!

[Canfora]

Sometimes there is the feeling that I am not living life 100%. That I am not here/now totally. There are times that this “I” is back, and I am going back to the circles of the mind forgetting in a way that there is no me.

So, I guess I am looking for something that will get things more clear and I will be living life totally free. To be at here and now 100%.

Can you control, avoid, repress, escape, change these experiences: "clear", "unclear", "forgetting", "To be at here and now 100%", "the I is back", "looking for something"?
Aren't all kind of experiences... well... being experienced? Does it work, wanting your experience to be different?

[NoLabel]

You are very right. If you see it from this point of view anything is an experience. But why am I forgetting this and I need you to remind me?

I would expect that once I have seen there is no me, there is no controller, this knowledge would be permanent.
So, even forgetting, is what is experienced this moment, right?

Does it work, wanting your experience to be different?

No, it doesn’t work at all. So the point of this inquiry is to see that I have no control at all. That everything that is been experienced is a part of the experience. Nothing more.

I think deep inside there is still the expectation that after all this I will achieve something. Don’t ask me what is this. I have no idea.
I have experienced to be here/now 100% some times and I probably seeking for this state to be established. Isn’t it the final goal of all this?

Thanks a lot!

[NoLabel]

What is the benefit of realizing that there is no self? That I am not the thoughts? The first thing that comes into the mind is this: If I am not the thoughts, then a thought has no effect on me. But who is this Me that thoughts have no control over me?

Nobody. I don’t exist. How can I exist if I can’t find anybody who has any control over thoughts, senses, observation etc? Then, all this inquiry has no meaning at all. If I accept that there is no me, that means that thoughts just continue to exist and I can’t change any of them because there is no me who has control over thoughts. So, if a thought about smoking come, I have to accept that I have no control and there is nobody to fight against the thought of smoking. So, I just continue to smoke forever, since many moments of the day, a thought of smoking is what is going on here and now.

[Canfora]

You are very right. If you see it from this point of view anything is an experience. But why am I forgetting this and I need you to remind me?

Maybe there is no need to remember this? And life goes on as usual? Why should your experience change if it is true there is no self separate from experience itself? Wouldn't that mean everything was, is and will happen without a you?

I would expect that once I have seen there is no me, there is no controller, this knowledge would be permanent.

Only if you can control knowledge. Thinking. Do you have any control over your thoughts?

So, even forgetting, is what is experienced this moment, right?

Yes, yes. That's also a experience (or the labeling of a experience).

No, it doesn’t work at all. So the point of this inquiry is to see that I have no control at all. That everything that is been experienced is a part of the experience. Nothing more.

Well, the point of this inquiry is to see if there is a self in experience, a controller of a slice of life.

I think deep inside there is still the expectation that after all this I will achieve something. Don’t ask me what is this. I have no idea.

Would you say this expectation keeps you seeking for other than this now experience? What are you trying to achieve? Okay. You're saying you don't know what you're trying to achieve. Could the end of the seeking be what you've been looking for? If you allow what is happening to be as it is, how does that feel? Is the pull to escape this moment very strong?

I have experienced to be here/now 100% some times and I probably seeking for this state to be established. Isn’t it the final goal of all this?

I don't think so. To me the goal would be the end of the pull to seek endlessly for something other than this. Allowing the realization that experience is as it is. Good and bad. Presence or confusion. Anxiety or happiness. All included. The peace of non resisting. The absence of peace too. And that you are okay as you are also. I'm still working on this, its a life's work it seems. :)

What is the benefit of realizing that there is no self? That I am not the thoughts? The first thing that comes into the mind is this: If I am not the thoughts, then a thought has no effect on me. But who is this Me that thoughts have no control over me?

Good questions. Why wouldn't a thought have effects? I still react to thinking all the time (I was tempted to write the I between quotation marks but I don't think there is a need to change the way we normally speak to see there is no self).

Nobody. I don’t exist. How can I exist if I can’t find anybody who has any control over thoughts, senses, observation etc? Then, all this inquiry has no meaning at all.

Well, yes. In a way it's an nonexistent you trying to prove it's nonexistent. It's the strangest thing.

So, if a thought about smoking come, I have to accept that I have no control and there is nobody to fight against the thought of smoking. So, I just continue to smoke forever, since many moments of the day, a thought of smoking is what is going on here and now.

Thinking isn't making you smoke or not smoke. You can have thousand thoughts a day about smoking and not smoke. Or you can have thousand thoughts a day about not smoking and smoke. Would you say smoking is your choice or is smoking something that happens - despite what you think about smoking?

[NoLabel]

Maybe there is no need to remember this? And life goes on as usual? Why should your experience change if it is true there is no self separate from experience itself? Wouldn't that mean everything was, is and will happen without a you?

Hehehe, very good point.

Only if you can control knowledge. Thinking. Do you have any control over your thoughts?

Hehehe ok, so, even knowledge comes and goes, been replaced by other knowledge etc. But knowledge comes through seeking. So, even seeking comes by its own? Here I feel some reaction inside me. Because there are days that I like seeking and other days that there is the feeling of seeking but I feel tired of seeking. Who/what is this that reacts at this?

NoLabel wrote:So, even forgetting, is what is experienced this moment, right?
Yes, yes. That's also an experience (or the labeling of a experience).

The thought that came to the mind reading this is the following: “So, if there is a moment of forgetting, I should accept that there is forgetting going on here/now. But I feel this is not the right way, because I have to force myself to accept. And that means that there is a self who should accept or not what is going on.

If you allow what is happening to be as it is, how does that feel? Is the pull to escape this moment very strong?

No, if I allow what is happening to be as it is the pull to escape this moment goes lighter and lighter. But… Who is this Me that is allowing?

Allowing the realization that experience is as it is. Good and bad. Presence or confusion. Anxiety or happiness. All included. The peace of non resisting.

If there is none to resist, then who/what is allowing the realization that experience is as it is?

Good questions. Why wouldn't a thought have effects?

Heheheh, ok I can understand this and its fun. Makes things simpler. But to see that this is just a thought that affects me, there should be an observer. And as I have seen I am not an observer. I can’t even try to be an observer. Especially as much I try to be an observer the more discomfort there is.

I still react to thinking all the time (I was tempted to write the I between quotation marks but I don't think there is a need to change the way we normally speak to see there is no self).

Yes, you could write: “there is still reaction to the thought all the time”. I get this. We don’t have to play with words. My question here is this: Reaction most of the times bring a disorder/discomfort to what is going on here/now. Because while reacting we don’t accept what is here/now. And here we could say, there is none to react. There is just reaction going on. But it seems there must be somebody to observe there is reaction. (For you there is the realization that “there is still reaction to thinking”. Who/what is this in you that makes this realization? This Somebody/something to accept that what’s going on here is “reacting to thoughts”. Who/what is this that brings this duality? The duality between “there is reaction” and the moment you realize this becomes “there is observation of the reaction”. (oh my god. Does this make sense? Heheheh. I think this is the trickiest part for me).

Well, yes. In a way it's an nonexistent you trying to prove it's nonexistent. It's the strangest thing.

Hehehhe I feel my head burnt some brain cells right now :) (and again, who/what is trying to prove something if there is no self?)

Thinking isn't making you smoke or not smoke. You can have thousand thoughts a day about smoking and not smoke. Or you can have thousand thoughts a day about not smoking and smoke. Would you say smoking is your choice or is smoking something that happens - despite what you think about smoking?

Then what is it? How can I say that smoking is happening by itself? I can see the thought for smoking come and goes and one of those moments I will smoke or not. I used to think that by understanding that you are not the thoughts you could just skip them. But I now understand that in order to skip them you have to be in control. So, in general there is no point trying quitting smoking.

I get what you mean. But all the times I have quitted smoking I had to be over thoughts. I could see thoughts about smoking come and go and I was letting them passing by without smoking. I was saying “Ok, there is just another thought about smoking. I was not being attached to the thoughts and after a while the thought has gone. In this way I was thinking I had control over thoughts. If I accept I have no control I should never think about quitting smoking ever again? (I know this inquiry is not about smoking but this is one of the biggest examples I have about control.)

As you can see the main point of my question is about the same. Don’t worry. I don’t have tough times. I just try to make things as clear I can. And this kind of question can’t be answered for now.

Thanks again for all your effort. I feel bad some times that you have to read all these questions. But your answers make me feel better and laugh at many points with lots of the realizations you bring to me.

[Canfora]

If I accept I have no control I should never think about quitting smoking ever again? (I know this inquiry is not about smoking but this is one of the biggest examples I have about control.)

So what makes you go and smoke? Is smoking a choice? If you think it is, next time you light a
cigarette (what a strange word!) find the you that makes you smoke. Let me know what you find.