After many books/talks, I feel an approaching, elveloping se

[SueYen]

Hi there Kevin,

Are you still there?

Did you receive my previous reply?

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Thanks,

Susan.

[KevinD]

Sorry for the delay, Susan, I got tied up in some family stuff.

Thanks for the responses to that, and I'm glad you enjoyed the video.

A couple of tidying up matters:

Although it does feel like it is in my head (thoughts/instructions).

Can you elaborate on this for me?

A voice I hear in my head.

What choice or control does this voice have?

I can't locate it in space.

Where can you locate it?
And if nowhere, where is it?


Best,
Kevin

[SueYen]

Hi there Kevin, that's fine - I got to do things I wanted to do my end.

A couple of tidying up matters:

Susan wrote:
Although it does feel like it is in my head (thoughts/instructions).

Can you elaborate on this for me?

It feels like it is me but not me. It feels like my arm is a docile entity that is obedient to 'a voice' from a non-location and that my arm's response is automated (without questioning, just dumb obedience???)
When I ask again "Where is this 'I' located?" it feels like I don't have control over it - like it is an automated thing that happens mearly carrying out your or my request without questioning. Robotically - not real, not me (separate).
It feels like the arising 'I/voice' arises when emotion is present and driven by the same. It still feels located in my head... Like the instructions (and reactions) are generated there (perhaps even behind my head).

Susan wrote:
A voice I hear in my head.

A pretend thing that is calling the shots and (not even being questioned by me) more of a habit or a giving over of responsibility/control to ???? this commander/instructor.

What choice or control does this voice have?

I seems to have control (unquestioned obedience) until I consciously question it. Which arises when I am present and unrushed.

Susan wrote:
I can't locate it in space.

Where can you locate it?

I'm having trouble locating it. When I look now I feel like I am only finding ego (but not 'me').

And if nowhere, where is it?

In a story about me, of who I am and how I am and how (I percieve) others may 'see' me.

[KevinD]

Hi Susan,

That's great.
Nice tidying up there.
Let's take a closer look at the phenomenon of choice.

Take two objects/possibilities, of which you might ordinarily choose either e.g. coffee or tea, blue pen or black pen, salt and pepper, then sit and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.

Thanks,
Kevin

[SueYen]

Take two objects/possibilities, of which you might ordinarily choose either e.g. coffee or tea, blue pen or black pen, salt and pepper, then sit and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.

I immediaterly felt/got sad/excited on reading the above question. Almost fear, worry, scared, excitement.
Eeeek! Let's see....

First there is fear over making the 'right/best' decision. Worry about being wrong comes up. On focussing on where the decision comes from - it just seems to appear in the middle of my forehead. Not really decided but just told. Like a previosly reasoned out belief of being the best/healthiest option for me. Umm, it seems to be a preference that already exists based on 'my' history.

It doesn't seem to matter on closer inspection. when you remove habit, should's and worry. It's not important. In the case of a pen colour... it's just a pen. When it's not based on a reason for choosing... eg. health, preference etc. then it just is. And can be smoother and less worrisome/energy (emotional,mental) expended and calmer somehow and happy in the knowingness of it being liberating not to care/knowing it doesn't matter???

Thanks Kevin.

Susan

[KevinD]

Thank you, Susan.

There are no wrong answers, so I hope that relieves some of the anxiety.
Now, that said, I'd like you to go through the exercise again, with each object, and tell me exactly where the "choice point" was where an apparent decision is being made.



Thanks,
Kevin

[SueYen]

Hi Kevin,

Okay here goes...

Select one of your arms - It doesn't matter which.
When you have done that, rest for a moment and then when you want to, raise that arm into the air (or don't).
Examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…

What is this 'I' that is controlling the arm?

It's not there. it's just a thing that happens or doesn't happen.

Can a controlling 'I' be located?

It seems to have no existence. Other than to appear temporarily as an event briefly unfolding in it's own right to be observed then disappear/dissipate back into the ether!

What is this 'I' that is choosing which arm to raise?

An impulse. Nothing, maybe???

Can you find an 'I' that is doing the choosing?

No. Although i still feel on I'm on the edge of it (in 'no-mans' land) between seeing/feeling it a bit it and not really seeing or getting it fully.

How is decision made?

Perhaps in this case (raising an arm) it happens automatically/randomly or by a sensation in the arm that attracts your attention - because it's not important so there are no things to take into consideration.

[SueYen]

Hi Kevin,

Maybe this is what your request was referring to:

Take two objects/possibilities, of which you might ordinarily choose either e.g. coffee or tea, blue pen or black pen, salt and pepper, then sit and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.

If so, I shall try with this exercise as well.

Hmmm.... When I look for the 'preferer' (I) - It's not there. I already know my preference - so that is there, the decision is already known.

When I go to pick up one of two different pens just for the sake of the exercise... it doesnt matter and there is nothing there... it's like i look for the 'I' after it's been and gone. It was there to make the decision but when i look it's not there! Because I've already made the decision - so 'it' has receded back to whence it came or it only arises temporarily as an isolated happening then is gone forever? Is it only ever 'a one of thing' then another thought or inspiration or drive or compulsion arises separately next time... never connected ever?

[KevinD]

Hi Susan,

Interesting observations.
You mentioned "Because I've already made the decision" as part of your answer, and I'm curious as to know who is this "I" that has made a decision.
You straightened it out for me a bit, but what the heck, I'll ask anyway.

Who or what is this "I" that has made a decision?

Let's now consider the self as a thinker.

Are you the thinker of thoughts?
Can you think and choose a thought?
Can you stop a thought midstream?
Are you able to resist thinking about a pink rabbit, now that I've said it?

Best,
Kevin

[SueYen]

Hello Kevin,

Who or what is this "I" that has made a decision?

I think it is preferences already known.. When it doesn't matter though it's different.
If it is just 'Pick up a pen' for no reason other than to pick up a pen not based of preference but on a random inconsequential act then... it's like it is already done by the time I go to look... it's like I cant look and make the decision at the same time. Maybe what is looking/observing is the same as what is deciding. (no such thing as multi-tasking. We can only do one thing at a time.) It's like i cant grasp it. It's too fleeting.

Let's now consider the self as a thinker.

Are you the thinker of thoughts?
Can you think and choose a thought?

No. (as above - not able to multitask) can only think one thought at a time and can only choose after know/already having thought the thoughts to choose from.

Can you stop a thought midstream?

Yes.

Are you able to resist thinking about a pink rabbit, now that I've said it?

The initial words conjure up an image unbidden. no matter pink rabbit, blue elephant or green crocodile.
Then I can choose to focus on something else.

[KevinD]

Can you please give me an example of how you can stop a thought midstream?

What or who is the I allegedly stopping that thought?

Thanks,
Kevin

[KevinD]

Hi Susan,

How goes?

[SueYen]

Hello Kevin,

Sorry it's been so long.

Can we continue?

If so...

Can you please give me an example of how you can stop a thought midstream?

It doesn't feel like I am doing it - it feels like it just stops. Maybe more of a letting go??? But it seems I have to decide first that I am going to stop midstream.

What or who is the I allegedly stopping that thought?

Its like I know in advance that I am going to stop the thought and it just cuts off (because I have know I am going to stop it - I'm able to cut it off). I tell myself that I am going to have a thought and then cut it off - so I do.

*** Then who is the I ? It's like I can't go back to 'before' this bit (this past of that present)- it's like it doesn't exist now - when I look for the/an 'I' (back then - after the event).

Is there an 'I' ? Or is it just observations and decisions/choices then chosen actions/(unaware)reactions???

[KevinD]

Hi Susan,
Welcome back!!
I'll respond a little later today.
Best,
Kevin

[KevinD]

Hi Susan,

Welcome back.

Its like I know in advance that I am going to stop the thought and it just cuts off (because I have know I am going to stop it - I'm able to cut it off). I tell myself that I am going to have a thought and then cut it off - so I do.

During a particular thought, and when you decide to change that thought, detail for me the exact choice point, the very second with which that thought is forced to change, or when another is supposedly created to replace it.
Do this a few times and see if there really is a choice point.

Best,
Kevin