When I came across LU, I thought it had fallen from heaven!

[Sarah7]

Hey Lynda
Is there connection between felt sensation in the hand & the sight of movement in the mirror? - not really.. it's subtle because it's fast.. but there still seems to be a bit of connection. I would say it's the thoughts that make a connection. Without thought... no connection? This one was a bit harder for me.

Have another look at that. Play around a bit with different body parts! :)

Are you in the body looking out, of the body as a whole or in certain part of the body? If all – then will you exist if you cut your hair, lose an arm or lose weight? If in a part – which part? Is there a time when the self is not experienced? Did the self chose to not experience itself? Did it chose to come back at some point? Or did that just happen? When you had no sense of self – did you disappear?

Close your eyes and relax for a minute.
Then examine the body from inside.

Can you know, without memory and concepts, how big this body is? How far away the head is from toes? Is there a line, that separates inside from outside? Here from there?
Scan the body for tensions and look at them closer, what is happening? What are these sensations? What are these sensations happening to? Is there awareness of hand if focus goes on a foot?
Play with this and write what you notice.
Notice this, where focus goes, labelling, narrating story follows. Mind is describing what is being experienced after it has been experienced.
Now do the same exercise with eyes open. What is different? Is there a line between inside and outside? What is that separates here from there? Is there an edge to experience?
Describe what feels true!
Hugs Sarah xxx

[oldyeller]

Is there a connection between felt sensation & the movement in the mirror.. with hand or other body part? - I could feel the lack of connection more in my head. I feel a bit like my ego wants me to get 'stuck' here, make it difficult :)

I feel I'm looking out of the body as a whole & I would still exist if anything changes with the body. When I'm sleeping the self is not experienced. No the self didn't choose this. No it didn't choose to come back at some point. It just happened. With no sense of self I didn't disappear

Can I know how big this body is? - No. Head from toes? - No.

Is there a line between inside & outside? - No, it just flows unless I focus on one or the other with thoughts.
For tensions they're happening to the body. The sensations are a tightness & discomfort in that part of the body. Is there awareness of hand if focus goes on a foot? - No.
(If awareness was on a headache say.. I wouldn't even notice my toenail & if awareness was on a bellyache I wouldn't notice my shoulders)
Where focus goes.. mind describes what is being experienced. Yes for sure.
With eyes open. - It's the same only not quite as easy to notice because of more distraction. Is there a line between inside & outside? - No, no line. Here & there are one experience & in or out don't affect it.

[Sarah7]

Hi Lynda
Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?
Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?
Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?
Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[oldyeller]

Things are going on... there is experiencing but no I haven't been able to find an 'actual' experiencer
or doer, controller, decision maker or thinker.......

[Sarah7]

Mornin Lynda
Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?
Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?
Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?

Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication? Do you feel the illusion of self has been revealed? If so what remains?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[oldyeller]

Is the body just another thought label? - Yes
Are the body senses made to arise or experienced by this 'self'? - Not made to arise.. just arise. There's an awareness there that experiences these senses but I know now it's not a self.
In my head I know that there's not a 'self' which is separate from the world & others out there. This is where I've heard others say the same... they use the word intellectual... but not strongly & always experienced.

The 'self' is nothing but a thought! Is there doubt or unclarity here? - No not in knowing that. I do feel that the illusion of self has been revealed.
If so what remains? - consciousness... pure awareness & it's connected to everything.

[Sarah7]

Hi Lynda
You: In my head I know that there's not a 'self' which is separate from the world & others out there. This is where I've heard others say the same... they use the word intellectual... but not strongly & always experienced.

Me: is there doubt here? If so what is that doubt made up of?
Is there doubt outside of thought?
What state or experience is ever permanent?

You: No not in knowing that. I do feel that the illusion of self has been revealed.

Me: Anymore questions Lynda? Anything you want to look at?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Sarah7]

Sorry an extra question just popped in!

You say intellectual understanding. What is that?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[oldyeller]

Is there doubt here & if so what is it made of? - It feels like just a bit of doubt. It's made up of expectation maybe & outside of thought it wouldn't be there.
No state or experience is ever permanent. This is where I said I didn't want to lose a feeling.. but of course no state or experience is ever permanent.

What is meant by intellectual understanding,
It's like explaining to a man what it's like to have a baby or the beauty of a sunset to a blind person.
I know realization is a process & more ordinary than we like to believe.

[Sarah7]

Hey Lynda
It feels like just a bit of doubt. It's made up of expectation maybe & outside of thought it wouldn't be there.
No state or experience is ever permanent. This is where I said I didn't want to lose a feeling.. but of course no state or experience is ever permanent.

And is that thought forever sending you out of now, saying 'this isnt it'? 'This cant be it'?

It's like explaining to a man what it's like to have a baby or the beauty of a sunset to a blind person.
I know realization is a process & more ordinary than we like to believe.

What is it without comparison? Is all thought a concept or an explanation of perception? Is intellectual understanding just thought trying to grapple with, explain and therefore own what is?

Anymore questions Lynda?
How do you feel?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[oldyeller]

Is the doubt thought sending me out of now? Yes because I think it feeds on itself.. once it gets in there.
Yes I would agree with you... all thought is an explanation of perception... & thought (ego, mind) is trying to take over again & own what is !! ureka!

Questions? Hey egos never run out of questions or answers :) on & on ad nauseum... (just shut-up ego & let there be peace :).

Ok so how do I feel? - I think I want you to validate for me & I caught the self-doubt there. You haven't asked me... as in the Gatecrashers... what I feel might have been a point for me (the gate?) so I feel a little presumptuous in saying it was the day I cry/laughed.... then the ego says 'but there may be more'. I've been drawn to re-reading the Gatecrashers to compare... it seems some of the others felt similar. And there runs the ego again.

[Sarah7]

Hey Lynda

Is the doubt thought sending me out of now? Yes because I think it feeds on itself.. once it gets in there. Yes I would agree with you... all thought is an explanation of perception... & thought (ego, mind) is trying to take over again & own what is !! ureka!

OK – I want you to spend some time watching and noticing thought suggesting more, or this isn’t it, or wanting, or anything that relates to ‘not now’.
Then I want you to see if you can pinpoint what minds this happening?

Questions? Hey egos never run out of questions or answers :) on & on ad nauseum... (just shut-up ego & let there be peace :).

Again – what does it matter what thought says? Is thought the enemy? If so who or what? Watch thought go here and there, come and go, argue, comment etc. But so what? What can thought do?

I think I want you to validate for me & I caught the self-doubt there. You haven't asked me... as in the Gatecrashers... what I feel might have been a point for me (the gate?) so I feel a little presumptuous in saying it was the day I cry/laughed.... then the ego says 'but there may be more'. I've been drawn to re-reading the Gatecrashers to compare... it seems some of the others felt similar. And there runs the ego again.

Who or what needs reassurance? What dont you know? What else is there? Have you looked at the sentence at the bottom of all my posts?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[oldyeller]

Notice thought suggesting more or this isn't it or wanting or not now - Yes. There may be a feeling about this too. Which happens first.. a thought or a feeling.. or does it matter? Who is there to have a thought or a feeling.
What is it that minds this happening - It's the ego getting in there again & being a 'me-impostor'. It's the self inquiry of who am I..... which is.. I am not... & I kept repeating I'm nobody.. I don't exist.

What does it matter what thought says.. is it the enemy?... to who or what? I know there's no me so thought has no me to latch onto.. unless that's forgotten & believed into being so. It can't be an enemy either... to what or who.

Watch thought do what it does... but.. so what! What can it do? It can't do anything by itself.. it needs to have belief in it & the belief in the doing power of a 'me'. So thoughts aren't to be afraid of or take seriously at all. They are no more than puffs of cloud floating by with no meaning.. importance or reality.

Who or what needs the reassurance? Right.. who is there who does? I'm realizing here that it's the non-existent ego of course... there's no me... it's all illusion.
What don't I know? That's like a trick question now... there is no I to know or not know!
What else is there? When I laugh/cried I kept saying there's no me.. I don't exist!

Yes I've looked at the bottom sentence & thought about it quite a few times & I believe it's saying the same as the 'chop wood.. carry water' reminder.
As in when you understand or don't understand... there's nobody to do the understanding & things are just as they are.

[Sarah7]

So then Lynda, has the illusion of self been revealed? Is there any doubt at all?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[oldyeller]

Has the illusion of self been revealed? Yes & now I realize I was on my way more than I could know but I had no other to walk with.. & felt quite alone.

Is there any doubt? No & though no state is permanent... as they also say... once you've seen, you can't unsee.

I want to thank you for walking with me & is this where I say 'now what?' Chop wood.. carry water. I would like to stay in contact.