Am I already through? Doubt makes it seem unlikely.

[forgetmenot]

Hi Jamie!

How wonderful that you have had the epiphany and seen that thoughts are not you and that there is no "I" thinking the thoughts and that the idea is NONSENSICAL (haha...love it!).

I can no longer look for "I" – there's nowhere to look. There's nobody to look. The idea is nonsensical.

Yes! Fantastic! :) However, LOOKING still continues as there are times when thoughts are once again believed and we get caught up in the story of an "I/me". The only remedy is to LOOK for that "I/me" to once again see through the thoughts that claim everything on the 'behalf' of the illusory "I/me".

I don't know what's next. I will gladly answer your previous questions and anything else you have for me.

Now we need to cement this 'seeing'. 'I would really like for you to answer the questions in my previous post and once I am clear that you are clear between AE of thoughts and content of thoughts we can move on to explore a few other areas before signing you off!

I just want to say THANK YOU!

You're welcome! :) And thank you for being willing to LOOK.

Thanks for letting me know that you will be busy, and I look forward to receiving your responses as soon as you can to keep the momentum going.

Much love
Kay

[jamie-e]

there are times when thoughts are once again believed and we get caught up in the story of an "I/me"

This has already started to happen!

To the questions from your previous post...

Is the thought that “I” “do” powerful in itself, or is it just another thought that says it is powerful?

It's just another thought. A thought has no power.

In AE can you find "people"? What is the AE of "people"?

"People" is just a label. The label "people" is the AE of thought. There is no AE of "people".

So the thoughts ABOUT “I” (the story that makes up an “I” called Jamie) are fiction as the only thing that is, is the actual experience of thought + image + sensation.

Can you see this?

Yes! All AE is thought + image + sensation. Any thoughts that label or connect those are fiction.

Is a thought aware of a smell, taste, sound, sensation, image and other thoughts?
Are smells, taste, sound, sensation, image and thoughts aware of thoughts?

No – a thought or a sensation is not aware of anything. They can not react to anything :)

Can you find “time” anywhere in actual experience? What is the AE of “time”?

"Time" is just a label. There is no AE of "time".

[forgetmenot]

Hi Jamie,

Some nice LOOKING is happening! :)

there are times when thoughts are once again believed and we get caught up in the story of an "I/me"

This has already started to happen!

And it will continue to happen, but the time frame becomes shorter between getting caught up in the thoughts and seeing through the thoughts.

Is the thought that “I” “do” powerful in itself, or is it just another thought that says it is powerful?

It's just another thought. A thought has no power.

Yes!

In AE can you find "people"? What is the AE of "people"?

"People" is just a label. The label "people" is the AE of thought. There is no AE of "people".

Yes! (handing you a lollipop!) (smiling)

So the thoughts ABOUT “I” (the story that makes up an “I” called Jamie) are fiction as the only thing that is, is the actual experience of thought + image + sensation.
Can you see this?

Yes! All AE is thought + image + sensation. Any thoughts that label or connect those are fiction.

Marvellous!

Is a thought aware of a smell, taste, sound, sensation, image and other thoughts?
Are smells, taste, sound, sensation, image and thoughts aware of thoughts?

No – a thought or a sensation is not aware of anything. They can not react to anything :)

Yep! :)

Can you find “time” anywhere in actual experience? What is the AE of “time”?

"Time" is just a label. There is no AE of "time".

Yep! :)

Okay just a small exercise for further clarity.

Close your eyes and imagine holding a watermelon in your hands.
Imagine it so vividly that you can feel its weight, the shape and texture of the skin.
Hold it there, sensing it.
Then open your eyes.

What happened to the melon?
How about the sensation that was so believable?
Was there ever a melon in ‘reality’?
Was there an appearing mental image?
Was the content of the mental image (the melon) ‘real’?

The thoughts and mental images are real only as AE of thoughts and mental images, their appearance cannot be denied.
However their ‘contents’, what are they about (like the watermelon) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies.
Can you see this?

Much love
Kay

[jamie-e]

What happened to the melon?

Nothing happened to any melon – there wasn't one!

How about the sensation that was so believable?

It wasn't really believable. There was almost sensation of weight, temperature, smell, but nothing that could be mistaken for a real melon.

Was there ever a melon in ‘reality’?

No!

Was there an appearing mental image?

Yes. Thoughts about how a melon looks; color, size, texture, etc.

Was the content of the mental image (the melon) ‘real’?

The thoughts were as real as any thought. The content of the thoughts was not real.

their ‘contents’, what are they about (like the watermelon) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies.
Can you see this?

Yes!

Thank you :)

[forgetmenot]

Hey Jamie,

Well it surely looks like you are really clear on the difference between the AE of thought and the content of thought. :)

Let's look at the idea of control, choice and decisions

1. First, choose one of your arms - it doesn't matter which.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then when you want to, raise that arm into the air.

Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…

What is it exactly that is choosing which arm to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the arm?
Can a controller be located?
Can anything be found that makes the arm move?
How is the decision made?

Much love
Kay

[jamie-e]

What is it exactly that is choosing which arm to raise?

I don't know. There are only thoughts, that appear conversationally like "ok choose the right arm this time" etc. It "sounds" (I don't know a better word) like somebody is talking, which is ridiculous and hilarious!

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?

No.

What is it that is controlling the arm?

I don't know.

Can a controller be located?

No.

Can anything be found that makes the arm move?

No.

How is the decision made?

I don't know!

[forgetmenot]

Hi Jamie,

What is it exactly that is choosing which arm to raise?

I don't know. There are only thoughts, that appear conversationally like "ok choose the right arm this time" etc. It "sounds" (I don't know a better word) like somebody is talking, which is ridiculous and hilarious!

Haha – the ghost in the machine!!

Have another look…is there a someone/something that is choosing which arm to raise and when?

There are thoughts appearing but are they appearing to someone/something?

What is it that is controlling the arm?

I don't know.

Have another look here as well.
Can you find anything/anyone that is controlling the arm?
Is it a thought?
Can a thought control the arm?

How is the decision made?

I don't know!

Have another look here also.
Can you pinpoint the actual moment of when the decision takes place or find the actual entity that appears to be making that decision?

Try this exercise on for size as well!

Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Love Kay

[jamie-e]

Have another look…is there a someone/something that is choosing which arm to raise and when?

There is no decision-making in AE. A choice or movement just happens, sometimes with an accompanying "left"/"right"/"that one"/"now"/whatever thought.

There are thoughts appearing but are they appearing to someone/something?

The thoughts are just an element of experience. There is nobody/nothing experiencing them.

Can you find anything/anyone that is controlling the arm?
Is it a thought?
Can a thought control the arm?

There is no controller in AE. The movement just happens. Thoughts arise about arms moving but they are only thoughts. A thought can not control the arm.

Can you pinpoint the actual moment of when the decision takes place or find the actual entity that appears to be making that decision?

I can not pinpoint a moment that a decision is made. There is no entity in AE making a decision. I can't even find a decision in AE. Perhaps there is no decision at all.

Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?

The controlling does not happen in AE. Movement just happens, with or without accompanying thought. Thought does not control the movement.

This is fascinating, thank you :)

[forgetmenot]

Hi Jamie,

Nice looking and glad you found the exercise fascinating. :)

Can you pinpoint the actual moment of when the decision takes place or find the actual entity that appears to be making that decision?

I can not pinpoint a moment that a decision is made. There is no entity in AE making a decision. I can't even find a decision in AE. Perhaps there is no decision at all.

For a decision to be made that means:
1. that there must be a someone or something, and
2. this someone/something is thinking
3. and this someone/something created and specifically chose which thoughts to think in the moment
4. and this someone/something then made a choice based on the decision made via thinking which arm to raise and when to raise it.
5. and through that choice, the thought chosen (eg raise right arm) was the catalyst that made the right arm raise (which is cause and effect = time)
6. and last but not least, that there are arms that can be raised!

Okay…so with that…let’s look at the body! Let’s see if there is even a left or right arm to choose between and raise!

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush.

Love Kay

[jamie-e]

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

No.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

There is no "boundary" – only sensation

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

The concept of inside/outside is content of thought. In AE there is only thought + sensation. Any meaning ascribed to that sensation (the content of the thought) is fiction and not AE.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

Sensation + image which we label "body".

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

There is no AE of "body".

Thank you <3

[forgetmenot]

Hey Jamie,

Fantastic looking! You seem very clear about thoughts and the body. We are just about at the end of our exploration into the illusion of separate individual. Although you have already seen through it....I always like to go explore the body and time so that if there are any beliefs and concepts hiding there they can be looked at with AE and seen through before we finish up.

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time or an event that is moving forward on this linear time, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience that the now is moving along the line of time?

How fast is the present moment actually moving?

How long does the now last?

Where does it start and where does it end?

When does the now exactly become the 'past'?

What is the past in actual experience?

Love Kay

[jamie-e]

Hi Kay :) I am ready to look and answer any and all questions on this. I have not had an experience as vivid as the night I saw through the illusion. The following day was dreamlike and calm – I really knew there was no "me", and there was a certain clarity with that. Now, a few days later, I still know but the knowing is "quieter". I frequently remember it's the case, but I have yet to re-experience that strong sense of recognition. I'd like to feel it again but I'm not sure how, or if it's even possible.

These are some real brain-bending questions!

But is there an experience that the now is moving along the line of time?

"The line of time" and "now" are concepts. There is no actual "line" and no "now" to move along it. "Time" is a concept. There is no AE of "time".

How fast is the present moment actually moving?

This question assumes that time exists and is measurable by someone/something. "Moment" and "time" are just labels. A moment is a concept. It has no measurement other than those ascribed to it with thought. Any supposed measurement of a moment is arbitrary.

How long does the now last?

"Now" is just a concept. A label that refers to a particular "moment".

Where does it start and where does it end?

"Now" is an abstract concept. It has no start, end, or duration in reality.

When does the now exactly become the 'past'?

"Now" and "the past" are concepts. There is no actual connection between them.

What is the past in actual experience?

"The past" is a concept that exists only in thought. There is no AE of "the past".

[forgetmenot]

Hey Jamie,

I have not had an experience as vivid as the night I saw through the illusion. The following day was dreamlike and calm – I really knew there was no "me", and there was a certain clarity with that. Now, a few days later, I still know but the knowing is "quieter". I frequently remember it's the case, but I have yet to re-experience that strong sense of recognition. I'd like to feel it again but I'm not sure how, or if it's even possible.

Seeing through the illusion of a separate individual is a recognition which you have had. And although there seemed to be a ‘special experience’ that went with this recognition, what has been seen cannot be unseen. There may or may not be other times when that strong sense of recognition is felt BUT what exactly is it that wants this? Instead of looking to re-experience that strong sense of recognition….LOOK and see if you can find what/who is wanting this.

Walking through the Gate is the beginning and not the end. LOOKING is something that becomes a ‘practice’ and doesn’t stop because recognition of no “I” has been seen. Whenever you find yourself going down the rabbit hole with thought, it’s to stop and LOOK at it with AE. Looking at various things throughout your day with AE is what deepens the recognition. There will be days where the recognition is just there, and there will be times when doubt and confusion arise until recognition happens again. And this is happening to no one! LOOKING every day is the key.

These are some real brain-bending questions!

And you did some really nice LOOKING, Jamie :)

Okay, so let’s check on clarity to date.

Has it been clearly seen that there has never been a separate individual that could control or own life or anything?

Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?

Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?

Is there a separate entity that started this investigation?

Has there ever been a separate individual doing anything?

Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

Love Kay

[jamie-e]

Instead of looking to re-experience that strong sense of recognition….LOOK and see if you can find what/who is wanting this.

Yes! This is great advice, thanks :)

Has it been clearly seen that there has never been a separate individual that could control or own life or anything?

Yes. This was clearly seen at the "aha" moment and occasionally again since then, with varying degrees of clarity. As you say, once seen, it cannot be unseen. This fits with my experience. However, although it is always "known", there are sometimes doubtful thoughts. These thoughts evaporate when "challenged". The trouble is that there isn't always the presence of mind to challenge them – it's so easy to get swept up in life's noise and drama. I appreciate that this is the beginning of something, and that it's possible to deepen this recognition. I will continue to LOOK!

Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?

No, although that was a tough one to really see. It's just so counter-intuitive.

Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?

No.

Is there a separate entity that started this investigation?

No.

Has there ever been a separate individual doing anything?

No!

Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

I'm not confused about anything specifically but I'm really keen to learn more about the illusion and what lies beyond. I feel like I've just scratched the surface.

Thank you Kay! <3

[forgetmenot]

Hi Jamie,

Yes. This was clearly seen at the "aha" moment and occasionally again since then, with varying degrees of clarity. As you say, once seen, it cannot be unseen. This fits with my experience. However, although it is always "known", there are sometimes doubtful thoughts. These thoughts evaporate when "challenged". The trouble is that there isn't always the presence of mind to challenge them – it's so easy to get swept up in life's noise and drama. I appreciate that this is the beginning of something, and that it's possible to deepen this recognition. I will continue to LOOK!

By continuing to LOOK, looking eventually becomes something that ‘happens’ on its own. It SEEMS that there is somebody remembering.
Are you the author or owner of any thoughts that arise?
Can you control what thoughts appear?
Can you find anyone or anything that thoughts are appearing to or that is ‘creating’ thoughts?
In actual experience, nothing can be found that is the source of what IS. It simply IS.

Do you not see all thoughts as they arise, even a thought like “have I really seen this, or am I kidding myself”, and that the ‘seeing’ of it is actual experience?
Is there a dividing line between ‘seeing’ and ‘seen’?
What the thought is about, the definition of ‘doubt’ and all the associated thoughts and feelings that seemingly go with that are content and are fiction. Is this clear?


So what is the AE of doubt? Thought + sensation which is glued together by thought and labelled doubt.
If the experience of *thought+sensation* shows up, where is the dividing line in ACTUAL EXPERIENCE that allows that experience to be divided into a separate experience of "thought" and a separate experience of "sensation"?
Is there really the experience of thought AND sensation or is there just thoughtsensation?
Is experience divided at all or is there only soundthoughtsensationsmelltastesound?

I'm not confused about anything specifically but I'm really keen to learn more about the illusion and what lies beyond. I feel like I've just scratched the surface.

What ‘more’ is there to know about the illusion? Anything that is not AE is the illusion.
I want you to LOOK in AE and see if you can find anything that “lies beyond”….beyond what exactly?

So let’s clarify illusion and WHAT IS.

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t.
Like, there is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.

Here is an interesting exercise in how labels do not have a one-to-one correspondence with reality:

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?
Is the colour red experienced, or is the colour green experienced as the label suggests?

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’?
Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here and now (red colour)?
Is green-ness inherent attributes of the experience of the colour red, or is green just a word label on the experience of the colour red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?
Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Please answer the questions in blue and the questions in the exercise about word labels.

Love Kay