Confusion...some sticking points in direct inquiry. the idea

[brenden]

Hi Kay and thanks again...
Havent had the time to look at this, a few questions have crept in which i see as the thought process...almost having a bite...'you need me' it says...but whom needs? Anyways, this pondering on volition is subtle, had me drowning in a sea of well we can just make excuses for all the crap in the world and off the horses run...the elephant i should say.
All is good...
I'll come back to you later today/tonight when home.
Much love and appreciation
B xo

[brenden]

Righto...story aside...
Let's do this.

Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?

No. That is only thought. Decider of any kind? I address what pops up here regarding this at the last question below.

Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?

No separate individual. That is thought, as is the notion of responsibility.

Is there a separate entity that started this investigation?
Has there ever been a separate self doing anything?

No separate entity/self, no doer. No starter of anything. All thought.

Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

This question is a real kicker to the title of this thread, 'Confusion...' LOL
Confusion along with the self that is seemingly confused is all but thought.
Looking here, the thought is noticed...'If it is all thought, then it only has power to control when interested in it'...'don't touch thought, don't get burned' is the thought noted here now, yet, direct experience is NOT going to thought to allow the raw experience of life to be just as it is...thus who or what decides whether one goes to thought or not? There is no-one that does anything as it has been shown...smiling here...it's a hot day lol...this whole process of looking at direct actual experience, in the moment of looking, there is seemingly a consciously made decision to not go to thought...thought circus lol.
Homer Simpson...DOH.

Thank you Kay.
Hugs
Brenden.

[forgetmenot]

Hi Brenden,

This question is a real kicker to the title of this thread, 'Confusion...' LOL
Confusion along with the self that is seemingly confused is all but thought.
Looking here, the thought is noticed...'If it is all thought, then it only has power to control when interested in it'...'don't touch thought, don't get burned' is the thought noted here now, yet, direct experience is NOT going to thought to allow the raw experience of life to be just as it is...thus who or what decides whether one goes to thought or not?

You’re not very clear on what you are alluding to here.

How can thought have power to control? How does a thought decide whether to have power or not have power? There is no one forgetting anything. Every thought, every sound, every smell, every colour, every sensation and every taste is known, if it wasn’t known it couldn’t exist.

Perhaps what the “confusion” is, is that there is a thought that there is a ‘you’ living life who can forget things and become confused…but that is content of thought – it’s the story ABOUT something called Brenden’s life and Brenden forgetting.

What’s the AE of Brenden?
What’s the AE of Brenden’s life?

There is no-one that does anything as it has been shown...smiling here...it's a hot day lol...this whole process of looking at direct actual experience, in the moment of looking, there is seemingly a consciously made decision to not go to thought...thought circus lol.

And is not that just another thought that says that “there is seemingly a consciously made decision to not go to thought” just another thought? Please don’t just take my word for it…but look.

I want you to look for that which is looking and tell me what you find.

Love Kay

[brenden]

Totally agreed...I didn't and never have 'taken our word for it'...was about to say, 'that's what got me into this mess' and the bell rang...loud...louder...louder than it has EVER rang...I was never in a mess...I never was!!!!
Laughing so hard....saw it but that bell was a humm dinger. Thank you.

whats the AE of Brendens...Brenden's life?

ALL THOUGHT and lots of content....on floor laughing....what a classic moment.

how can thought have power to control?

It cannot. Only in thought, if I take myself to be a someone...content.... all thought...yes.

Yes....ALL thought...
It's seriously funny.

THANK YOU. All clear here. Looked and laughed at it.
There is one verse that just springs to mind...pardon the language used here, just in case I set off any Kay alarm bells lol...
If a man THINKS himself to be a something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. Galatians 6:3

The pointer is SEEN....
Thank you Kay. Thank you Thank you Thank you.
A BIG hug...
Brenden.

[forgetmenot]

Hi Brenden!

TERRIFIC! Haha..."I see the light", he says! :) I am happy with and for you! :) No, you were never in a mess and never can be in a mess! Galatians 6:3 is apt - thank you for sharing and thank you for being so willing to drop everything and just look.

Okay, I think I can give you the final 6 questions. Take your time and answer them with some detail.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?

Much love and hugs
Kay

[brenden]

Hi Kay,
Just caught completing a job, really sitting with all that has unfolded...
Will complete this tomorrow.
So much love.
Thank you.
Hugs.
Brenden

[forgetmenot]

Hi Brenden,

Thanks for keeping me updated....muchly appreciated. Enjoy letting it just really sink in! :)

Love Kay

[brenden]

Hello again Kay, appreciate the patience here.
To close, here are my responses to the final questions.
Once again, I am truly thankful, for the process, but for your guidance through the ghost town to LIFE...to see what simply IS.
Awesomeness.
:)

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. This is seen now in perfect clarity. The old wineskin, the old ways of habitual thought, the ways of ‘this world of appearances’ is cast aside and seen through, making way for new wine, an authentic realised knowing of What-is, the direct actual experience of this-here-now, Life, as it has always been. Ground zero where there is not two, not I and Life.
Galatians 6:3 says so wonderfully, ‘If a man thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing he deceives himself’. Thought creating the idea of a self, ones image, all but a construct of thought. The root delusion. Thank you to both Kay and LU for the process of revealing the limitation and cage of ‘my’ intellectual understanding. I never was. So grateful.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The word label mind is seemingly a massive bag of conditioned habitual thought. This mind, thought, conceives itself to be an individual, constructs its own belief systems and a world model, all built entirely around our assumed concept of an objectified self. The root delusion.
Every waking moment, the actual direct experience of this-here-now, is seemingly veiled by what is the root of every utterance, the I-thought, the conceptual idea of self, a me, that is the manager of my life. The mind imagines itself to be a self who has a mind. No wonder it feels burdened trying to keep this huge contradiction hidden. Simply a thought construct, believing itself to be something, with a whole lot of other thoughts piled on top…the whole enchilada.
The identity that is thought is the person I took myself to be. A concoction of ideas, perceptions, associations, all the actual experience of thought…person…persona…mask.
All problems are personal, are all conceptualised, all thought.
A reactive thought process, out of habit, assumes it is an objective, independent volitional entity. It is the habit of a lifetime, running deep in the sub-conscious.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Without actual first-hand experience, a superficial, intellectual knowledge is just not enough to fully expose the conceptual self as the illusion it is. For this unveiling, for the process undertaken here, I am truly thankful.
The feeling is one of lightness, a weight off ones shoulders per se, a casting off of what was only a thought constructed burden. Simplicity before the concept of simple.
I came here as a seeker, to have my preconceived ideas, my spiritual knowledge, my puffed up bunch of fluff LOL, that in itself a thought owned by thought, confirmed. Kay's direct approach and yet guiding hand, allowed for the thoughts, and helped me to see through insight, the futility of them and the entanglement that is identity.
Truly a massive AHA moment, the feeling has not left me, and I feel at ease knowing the language that is spoken here is all one can do to point at the no-self.
Much humility and a buzz of potentiality is felt…
Truly a peace that surpasses ALL understanding.
Freedom IS…

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

It was in the final stages of this process. Any further questions was the question. I noticed the thoughts desperately fighting themselves, and caught myself saying, ‘don't trust the mind it's what got me into this mess’…it then dawned like the brightest sun…I never was in a mess, only the idea of myself was…and from that position I have worked so hard to control life, not realising the fallacy I had bought hook line and sinker.
I looked, embraced the looking, put aside preconceived ideas, what I thought I knew, dropped it ALL. It just revealed itself, unexpected and unsought.
Thank you Thank you Thank you.

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

All decisions, intention, the idea of free will/determinism etc, choice and control are just that. Ideas. Notions that are simply the actual experience of thought, built upon the false premise I am a someone to have, make or do such things. It's the burger with the lot.
One of the effects of this grand illusion is that thoughts, emotions and actions are interpreted as initiating from and belonging to the self-concept and thus controlled by it (the second illusion). Thoughts and actions are interpreted as something “done” by the self-concept “me.” However, being only a concept itself and not actually anyone at all, the self-concept has no ability to will or perform any act on its own.
Examples are endless. From the moment one wakes up, there is a self running the show, the thinker, the doer, the decision maker, the manager of ones life and he who must get it right to achieve the added notions of success, happiness, wealth, whatever label this self construct chases. Like chasing the horizon not knowing you stand on it.

In every actual experience, that seeming self is non-existent. Decisions, will to do or not do, choices, control and responsibility are all a construct of thought for the idea of self. Having seen though this entity, all of it falls away.
Life happens to no-one, by no-one...it is just a happening. A flow.


Thank you Kay and to the LU team.
To directly see this has been a truly awesome experience…
A game changer. Much love and I hope to remain in touch.
The only thing I will gladly say in addition, this process, this desire to want others to see what is largely overlooked, for no charge, is a credit to the authenticity and heart of all who want to pass on/give back. It is a wonderful thing, and though I have shared what I intellectually know on FB(lol I know) I too feel the desire for giving, to allow others to directly look at the burden we each carry, freely given as it is freely received. Thank you. Much love and gratitude.

Peace.

Brenden.

[forgetmenot]

Hey Brenden,

You post was absolutely lovely to read.

Once again, I am truly thankful, for the process, but for your guidance through the ghost town to LIFE...to see what simply IS. Awesomeness.

Thank you Brenden. I really appreciate your willingness to look...I was only here to point...you had to do the hard slog of looking! :)

Before I ask other guides to have a look at your responses to make sure I haven't overlooked anything, could you please clarity the following for me. I know you have seen through the illusion, but I want to be clear in what you mean with the following.

In Q2 you wrote:

A reactive thought process, out of habit, assumes it is an objective, independent volitional entity. It is the habit of a lifetime, running deep in the sub-conscious.

What exactly is it that has ever had a reactive thought process, habits, or has a sub-conscious?
Can a thought process react, or assume objectivity as an independent volitional entity?

In Q3 you wrote:

Truly a peace that surpasses ALL understanding.

Is there an idea that this peace will be forever lasting and if so, to what?

We will be remaining in touch as once your responses have been seen by other guides and there are no further questions, you will be invited to join the LU Aftercare Facebook page. You can always become a guide yourself, if that is what you wish to do.

Much love and gratitude
Kay

[brenden]

what exactly is it that has ever had a reactive thought process, habits, or has a subconscious?
Can a thought process react, or assume objectivity as an independent volition all entity?

Nothing. That IT being the habit, which is not even an it, is 'seemingly' the process, the thinking process, not a person or a thing, definitely not me or even my doing, just an involuntary action, as a heartbeat is an involuntary action.
And all that, ALL, is itself THOUGHT. Thoughts of themselves have no power, no ability to think, thus no way of reacting, just other thoughts upon thoughts, nothing to assume volition or any other attribute. Nothing. Forgive the soup, Thought waffle.

is there any idea that this peace will be forever lasting and if so, to what?

The peace pointed at here was in relation to the experience of seeing through in direct experience, the aha moment, just pointing at what the intellectual understanding had given on route to here..
The idea of it remaining the same, or changing, is but an idea, thought. What-is IS only here-now in every experience.
Needing no interpretation. Thank you. The ideas, notions, thought is seen for what they are, simply ideas, notions, thought.

His,

Brenden

[brenden]

Hugs...not His...
DOH.

Much love and thank you Kay.
Brenden

[forgetmenot]

Hi Brenden!

Thank you for clearing that up for me :)

Okay, I will ask the other guides to have a squizzy and if they have any questions for you I will pass them on. This could take a day or two.

Much love and appreciation
Kay

[forgetmenot]

Hey Brenden,

Congratulations, you are now on the other side of the Gateless Gate! (laughing) You have now actually seen why it is called the Gateless Gate!

What happens now is Werner will add you to the LU Aftercare Facebook groups. This is where you can meet other gate-ees and where you can share insights, pose questions and read others experience and share your own if desired. After you find your feet in the groups, you can explore helping others and perhaps someday do Guiding yourself.

I am sending you a private message to ask you for your Facebook name, we can then wrap this thread up.

Once again...it has been such a pleasure...and I feel honoured to have been able to walk with you and point the way.

Much love and hugs
Kay

[forgetmenot]

Hi Brenden....there seems to be a problem with my Private Messages as the PM I sent you is sitting in my Outbox but I am unable to send it. Would you be able to PM me your Facebook Username please.

Many thanks
Kay

[brenden]

Hi Kay and thanks again.
I replied to your PM...let me know if all is good at your end.
Cheers.
Hugs
Brenden