NoLabel requests a guide

[Canfora]

Very nice post, NoLabel! Good work with the looking at decisions!
Yes, keep looking to how decisions happen, until you are sure of how they do happen :)
These questions popped up here while reading your post: what can a thought do? Can a thought think? Can a thought decide? Is the thought "I" in any way different from the other thoughts? Have a look and let me know what you find.

Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra,

I think one of the things that confuse us the most is the observer. We think the observer is the ultimate core of consciousness. One of the biggest labels is the observer.

Observation just happens. But the “I” is grapping everything and dresses it as its own.

Observation is a great tool but nothing more than this. I start to slowly see how the “I” is interfering to everything. And as we think we are the “I” we get stuck to every single thought, act, feeling etc, because we are identified as all of them. (And we try to have control over them)

If we were living in the jungle with no language, I can see us walking in there, breathing, eating, exploring, observing. Each one of these acts it would be used as a tool for each specific moment, spontaneously, only where it would be necessary.

Now, confused by the language we do everything mechanically. I believe reality comes with spontaneity. Life knows every single minute what is the best way to act. But we are trapped in the circles of the “I” and we don’t let life to act naturally. We are creating patterns according to the “I” filter.

When “I” try to observe the continuity of life is broken. That moment “I” think that I am in present. But I am not. Because “I” try to observe, and this “I” can’t exist at here and now. I have noticed that many times while there is relaxation and calmness if “I” try to observe all this calmness and relaxation is cut-off, disappeared into a second. And then “I” think that the present is not enough. But this is not the present. It is just the familiar situation “I” have used to live through the “I”. The real present was just before the “I” popped up and tried to observe.

It is amazing how we search for calmness, trying to achieve it through the I. But all there is is calmness when the “I” is not present. Hehehehe

Anyway, I think one of the ultimate problems for me but probably for many others is this “Observer”. We have given so big deal to the word-observer that it has become one of the greatest Labels ever. And we have combined this label to self awareness. It is so funny if you think how contrary this is.

When “I” think “I” am observing “I” think I have control. That “I” am the one behind the observation that watches everything. And all my questions were coming from this point of view: “If I can observe myself how the absence of self can be true? I can see me observing, taking decisions, controlling myself”. “So, how is it possible to be no self? I am here, thinking, writing all these.”

I think the phrase self awareness it's totally false. Do you agree? How self awareness can be possible if there is no self? Maybe the right word would be no-self awareness.

It is amazing how a single word has transformed the whole perspective of life. :)

Hug,
NoLabel!

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel!

That's a nice, theoretical post, non? You're playing with ideas. Nothing against ideas, but my job is to make you look at your immediate experience! Does an I exist? Justify your answer by describing what you can find here and now. Investigate what surrounds you. What can you see that is a you or the observer?

Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra!

Happy new year! All the best for you!

Yes, it was a theoritical post. I read it the next day before you answer and I was thinking "what I was saying??"

What can you see that is a you or the observer?

I don't know Sanrda, I feel blocked. I feel lately that when I am trying to find the observer or the "I" is a totally theoritical trick, like the meditation stuff that they are saying to people "Feel the golden light coming into you"..
I don't know how it is like when a golden light is coming in to me!!.. How can I feel it?

Trying to find if an "I" exists, or all those similar questions feels a little bit the same for me lately and I feel a little bit frustrated or edgy. It is like, "Ok, the same questions.. these questions dont work for me"...

Ps: I haven't replied for some time because I had visitors but also because I was feeling I couldn't give you an honest answer.

Hug,
Stelios

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel! And a happy new year to you too!
Thank you for your honesty. And for keeping up :)

Trying to find if an "I" exists, or all those similar questions feels a little bit the same for me lately and I feel a little bit frustrated or edgy. It is like, "Ok, the same questions.. these questions dont work for me"...

What do you do when trying to find the answers to these questions?
This question, for example: can you see what is observing?
What do you DO to find the answer?

hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra,

can you see what is observing?
What do you DO to find the answer?

I try to be at here/now. I stop everything and just look, listen, see the thoughts, feel the senses…
For example, now there is silence. Some sounds from the neighborhood, my hand scratching my ear…
Deeper, the vibrations in my head and the body. Different sensations in the body. The mind tries to focus at something, to notice something else. A sound or a move makes the head to turn to this direction.

I have no idea what the observer is. What is behind all these, that describes to you all the above.
I can’t see what is observing. I can’t see anything that is the observer but also I can’t say that there is no observer. It is so tricky. I can be at here/now, just seeing, listening, feeling, etc… but what is this that can be this seeing, feeling, listening etc…?

Hug,
NoLabel

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel!

I try to be at here/now. I stop everything and just look, listen, see the thoughts, feel the senses…
For example, now there is silence. Some sounds from the neighborhood, my hand scratching my ear…
Deeper, the vibrations in my head and the body. Different sensations in the body. The mind tries to focus at something, to notice something else. A sound or a move makes the head to turn to this direction.

Nice. Yes, that's looking. Although it is also possible to do this in the mix of everything that can be going on, no need for quiet. It only needs some practice.

I have no idea what the observer is. What is behind all these, that describes to you all the above.
I can’t see what is observing. I can’t see anything that is the observer but also I can’t say that there is no observer. It is so tricky. I can be at here/now, just seeing, listening, feeling, etc… but what is this that can be this seeing, feeling, listening etc…?

Then thinking starts and there you go, trying to find answers to the questions that pop up. And thinking seems to overwrite the looking. And you think you lost the seeing. Is this what is going on?

That's quite common and it just means that you need to look some more. When you look like you did in the first paragraph, do you have any doubts that the I is an illusion?

Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra,

Nice. Yes, that's looking. Although it is also possible to do this in the mix of everything that can be going on, no need for quiet. It only needs some practice.

Yes, I know. For me it happens often while I am driving, or walking listening to some music. But there are times that when I “try” to be at here/now and its not easy I have to stop everything to do something like reset. For now the hardest is to be at here/now while I am talking to other people.

Then thinking starts and there you go, trying to find answers to the questions that pop up. And thinking seems to overwrite the looking. And you think you lost the seeing. Is this what is going on?

Yes, that’s exactly what is going on. Last night I was relaxed and I tried to practice a little bit more at looking. I was writing lot of stuff (writing helps me most of the times) and at some point I wrote this:

“When I try to look who/what is watching it causes me some stress and nervousness and it puts me out of here and now…
What is means it puts me out of here/now? … It means that I am attached to thoughts again.”

Also
“There is some confusion to what the mind tries to understand and it goes back to familiar thoughts and habits that will feel safe and good. For example to stop “looking” and relax surfing on the internet. This thought passed by but I insisted to keep looking... I know realize that “me” that insisted to keep looking is just a second thought reacting to the first thought. And this is what we perceive as decision.

Also some questions:
When there is observation of the thoughts passing by and there is the knowledge that there are just some thoughts, then usually I don’t follow these thoughts. I pass them over and continue into the raw experience. But, isn’t this going to lead into doing completely nothing?

Also this morning: I have quit smoking for several days now. If there is no “Me” who/what puts all this effort that is completely against the habits of the “I”.

When you look like you did in the first paragraph, do you have any doubts that the I is an illusion?

It depends the time Sandra. Sometimes is quite clear, some others its not. So, when it’s not I have doubts even for the times that “I” thought there was no “I”. :) (This is funny but this is what is going on)

Hug,
NoLabel

[Canfora]

Hello again,

Yes, I know. For me it happens often while I am driving, or walking listening to some music. But there are times that when I “try” to be at here/now and its not easy I have to stop everything to do something like reset. For now the hardest is to be at here/now while I am talking to other people.

You seem to think that this seeing is a kind of permanent state that you need to achieve by forcing yourself to be here/now? Could it be that there is no permanent states and that it is not possible to be outside the here/now? Could it be that everything that is going on is always part of the same, life itself, unfolding?

What's wrong with being totally immersed in what is going on when talking with other people? Would you prefer to be detached from what is going on? What for?

“When I try to look who/what is watching it causes me some stress and nervousness and it puts me out of here and now…
What is means it puts me out of here/now? … It means that I am attached to thoughts again.”

Aren't the stress and nervousness what is going on here/now? And thinking too? Could it be that you think you are out of the here and now only because you think here/now should be different (while you are completely present in the here/now)?

“There is some confusion to what the mind tries to understand and it goes back to familiar thoughts and habits that will feel safe and good. For example to stop “looking” and relax surfing on the internet. This thought passed by but I insisted to keep looking... I know realize that “me” that insisted to keep looking is just a second thought reacting to the first thought. And this is what we perceive as decision.

Yes, very nice!

When there is observation of the thoughts passing by and there is the knowledge that there are just some thoughts, then usually I don’t follow these thoughts. I pass them over and continue into the raw experience. But, isn’t this going to lead into doing completely nothing?

Hmm, I don't think so. Life will kick you in the butt and make you move, I assure you :)
I think I understand what you're saying, but isn't the raw experience always full of something to be done?
If this idea of being lead to do nothing scares you in some way, have a go at it and see what happens. Can you spend a lot of time doing completely nothing (or even 10 minutes)? How does that go?

Also this morning: I have quit smoking for several days now. If there is no “Me” who/what puts all this effort that is completely against the habits of the “I”.

Congratulations on quitting smoking and hoping that you keep at it! Next time you feel the urge to smoke have a look. What wants to smoke? Is it the body, is it a thought, is it an entity that is inside the body feeling those cravings? And how does the decision to smoke or not smoke happen? Does it take being an I to decide something, can this I be found somewhere, following or not following habits? Be curious, have a look!

When you look like you did in the first paragraph, do you have any doubts that the I is an illusion?

It depends the time Sandra. Sometimes is quite clear, some others its not. So, when it’s not I have doubts even for the times that “I” thought there was no “I”. :) (This is funny but this is what is going on)

Good, eheh. If you keep looking you will eventually trust your seeing. I hope you are enjoying this inquiry NoLabel!

Hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hi Sandra,

I have sat down and replied to your questions several times but some things are not settle yet.
The periods that I am not trying to find answers things start to slow down and get more clear. I feel that I am more in present.
So, I will take some time off experiencing effortless, without trying. The seed is here. I just need to relax and see what comes up.
I will contact to you again when I will have something clear to tell you or to ask you.

Thanks a lot!
Big jug!
NoLabel

[Canfora]

Hi NoLabel!

I will contact to you again when I will have something clear to tell you or to ask you.

Ok, looking forward to know how things are going, if and when you're ready to share.

Take care, big hug,
Sandra

[NoLabel]

Hey Sandra!!

How are you?

I am doing pretty good! Kick me in the but and push me through the wall!

BIG HUG!
Nolabel

[Canfora]

lol
There is no you! Is it true?
Share what comes up!

[NoLabel]

Yes, there is no me. There are just thoughts. Thoughts is not me. A thought is just a thought. There is no me that generated that thought. Using the word “I” make us think that we generated these thoughts.

And the worst part is when we try to control these thoughts. Totally stupid. The more you try to control something the more friction you get. And this friction is because it’s impossible to control anything. Because there is no you to control.

Now there is hunger. There is music, sounds from the street, thoughts in the mind, hands that are typing these thoughts. The mind has this inquiry right now: To give you some answers. This was something that was getting me confused in the previous posts: “If there is no me, who tries to answer to Sandra?”

And maybe during the day I was feeling calm, but the time I was sitting on the chair to answer to you I was getting anxious and frustrated. Because then I had been identified with the “I”. Now, I can see that the mind take tasks. One of these tasks was to give you some answers.

But who is this that generates the thoughts? No, I can’t find anything like this. Thoughts just appear and disappear, reacting to the specific moment. The moment you get identified with the thoughts you generate a loop. And then you feel lost.

If you can see that thoughts are just thoughts you break this circle. You can see thoughts as they are.

Another thing was that I still had some expectations that something will happen. That something will change.
To take some time without effort was the best choice. So, I just continued living life and without effort there was more and more here and now.

It’s not something WOW, and there is no expectation for something like this anymore. Life is fine as it is already.

I was talking to a friend today and we had a topic about choice. She told me that if you have no choice you get passive. I had the same opinion some time ago. Now, I can see that the thing that makes you passive is thoughts. There is thought about a choice, you analyze it, then you find some other choices from this analysis, you think of these new choices, you analyze it again etc… In this way you get more passive because you get identified with thoughts. If you see that you are not these thoughts you just act! Life is action. Am I right about these?

Those came up right now. Ask me anything else when you find the time.

Hug,
NoLabel

[Canfora]

Wow! Very clear!
How do you see choices and decisions happening?
Going right or left?
Tea or coffee?
What to write as an answer?
Find something simple to look at, and describe what you see going on.

And - if there is no you - what do you think you are?

hug!