Look, ma! No hands!

[phillip]

It's OK mate. Sorry for my language mistakes.
How did you realize that there is no I and how are you afrter?

[Garrett]

It's OK mate. Sorry for my language mistakes.
How did you realize that there is no I and how are you afrter?

There was no choice in the matter. The concept of self or 'I' was obliterated spontaneously.

It seems I came into this in a somewhat different manner than many of you. This talk by Todd Murphy may shed some light on what's going on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqrpKUTMXgY

[phillip]

Forget about enlightenment.

What is now?

[Garrett]

Forget about enlightenment.

What is now?

I appreciate your efforts, Phillip, but it seems you are still trying to convince me of something I already know.

[Chris]

Hey Garrett,

Please answer these in full from your own experience, then we can link you in to some other cool stuff.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this?

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Thanks,
Chris

[Garrett]

Hey Garrett,

Please answer these in full from your own experience, then we can link you in to some other cool stuff.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this?

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Thanks,
Chris

1. Only in the form of a 'me' being paired with all thought. It exists as a pointer or a label to something which does not now exist. It never existed in reality. The pointer was real (in the form of thought), but the thing to which it pointed was never there. In computer programming speak, the self was sort of like a collection of dangling pointers. All these thoughts pointing at specific thing and when one actually looks where everything is pointing, there's nothing there.

2. It is not known when the illusion of a separate self truly began. What level of informational integration is required for an illusory 'self' to subsume experience? Can a sense of self exist without language? Helen Keller clearly developed a sense of self. Did her sense of self not exist until her mind was successfully able to integrate a certain amount of information? Moment to moment, the self illusion arises with thought. When there's no thought, there's no self. When thoughts arise, the illusory, separate self arises with it.

3. Feeling just is. Moment to moment. Doesn't feel "good" or "bad". Happiness is still happiness. Sadness still sadness. The recognition that emotions arise without being "attached" to the illusory self creates some "space" around things. Simultaneously less impactful but also more profound. It is as if the illusory self was "distorting" reality and transmuting it into something less profound. Old thought patterns are dissolving and new ones are arising.

4. This would depend on the individual. The more information available to me on the target individual(s), the better I could tailor a way into the understanding. The means in which I would convey the understanding to a doctor would likely not be the same means in which I would convey the understanding to a 7-11 cashier.

5. When it happened, I was practically live blogging the thing. I've been in the habit for a few years of transcribing my thoughts. It is as natural to me as breathing. Thoughts enter the mind and transcription happens.

I was in the process of transcribing thoughts when a loud noise was heard outside my apartment. One thought knocked another out of the way during typing and "What's that?" ended up on the page. This is when the bottom fell out of the bucket. There was no intention to write "What's that?". I was writing about some other subject. Just a mechanistic transcription of a thought. It was at this point that everything began happening automatically. Walking, talking, eating, thinking - everything. Recognition that it had always been on auto-pilot.


On a related note, it has also become clear that 'no-self' recognition is just scratching the surface. No-self is Step 1. The two spontaneous "awakening" experiences and the resultant aftershocks have shown me that there is a much larger informational landscape available to humans than what is discussed here.

There are pitfalls as well. No-self puts the key in the ignition and starts the engine. Be careful that you do not remain parked and asphyxiate on carbon monoxide.

[phillip]

Forget about enlightenment.

What is now?

I appreciate your efforts, Phillip, but it seems you are still trying to convince me of something I already know.

If you can not aswer this qestion in the simplest way, as it is, you may be seeking forever. Do this now as you sit.

[Garrett]

Forget about enlightenment.

What is now?

I appreciate your efforts, Phillip, but it seems you are still trying to convince me of something I already know.

If you can not aswer this qestion in the simplest way, as it is, you may be seeking forever. Do this now as you sit.

"What is now?", you ask.

Do you believe a true answer can be conveyed in the form of words? If not, by what means can you assess whether or not a person is seeking?

[phillip]

What is now?

Sound of the computer, empty glass standing on the table and monitor is shineing.

What is this place?

[Garrett]

What is now?

Sound of the computer, empty glass standing on the table and monitor is shineing.

What is this place?

What is the sound of two hands clapping?

[phillip]

What is the sound of two hands clapping?

Clap

[phillip]

What we do on LU?