Company for the Path

[ElPortal]

Hi Iq

Good to hear from you again. No worries, words are an imperfect way of communicating, but they're what we have at present. There will be some to-ing and fro-ing until we each understand what the other is trying to say! As long as you are earnest to look, I have no problem at all to accompany you. Let's press on with this (E) and (T) looking, as it will help to be really clear as we talk about other issues which come up. Are you up for that?

Ok so yesterday you wrote very clearly:-

Mark: Where are 'yesterday' and 'tomorrow' in this present experience?
Iq: In the present experience all this business is in the dimension of thought, no more real than the craving for a cheesecake :-)

But in your last reply:-

Driving to work and having to deal with the traffic (E)
Eating (E)
Shopping (E)
Day at work (E)
Thinking too hard about yesterday is making me impatient as i look for more details which qualifies as appropriate to your request(T)

....how have all those memories from yesterday become (E)? Are they truly current experience, that which is felt NOW in this moment (E)? T's always look away from this moment. E's (direct experience) is always OF this moment.

In the Now example:-

Now
Writing this as i think (E)
Thinking about what your next question will be (T)
Am able to provide enough material for you to work with (T)
Satiety after dinner (E)
Am i annoying mark who is trying to help me from across the continent (T)

...how many of these are looking away from this moment to other imagined things (T)? Can you find some more (E) of this moment. THe direct first-hand NOW experience (sometimes called DE) of this moment includes all that is sensed (eg through the senses, what is smelt, what is felt, what is heard etc). Can you notice any more of these (E)?

NB even the descriptions of the actual experience (eg "feeling of cushion under leg") are really interpretations (T), aren't they? But it seems we have to use those for basic communication, yes?

Cheers

Mark

[Seekerz]

Hi Coach,

Sorry for the all the confusion , when i was referring to yesterdays event as E i meant they were an experience Yesterday but of course all the reminiscing of the past and the hopeful projection of the future is all (T) since there is not other reality beside the Now

As far at my experiences in the now are concerned,

I am listing a few:

Seeing the screen and typing and knowing what i am going to speak about next
The feeling of arm resting on my skin
The smell of my perfume
Looking around my "view scape", i have the computer, the bottle at my desk, the cables, my phone,
I can hear my colleagues talk nearby, i can hear some people chat far away
All these are happening in my Now" which should count as (E)

[ElPortal]

Hi Iq

Great, thanks for that response.

Ha, you're the boss here. This is YOUR investigation!

Seeing the screen and typing and knowing what i am going to speak about next
The feeling of arm resting on my skin
The smell of my perfume
Looking around my "view scape", i have the computer, the bottle at my desk, the cables, my phone,
I can hear my colleagues talk nearby, i can hear some people chat far away
All these are happening in my Now" which should count as (E)

This is great. Now let's take one of these:-

can hear my colleagues talk nearby, i can hear some people chat far away

.. and let's look more deeply into it, more searchingly. Of course we will have to pretend that it's happening NOW (if it isn't), but let's do that. Can you find anything in there which is (T): thoughts, interpretations, descriptions, assumptions, mental images. eg is it mind activity which interprets these sounds as 'colleagues'? or is that (E). Is it mind processing which interprets the sounds of 'nearby' from those of 'far away'? or is that (E). If it's (E), how do you know that? How is that experienced? Can you find any other aspects which might be (T) or is it DEFEINITELY all (E)?

As always, take your time and ponder. See what FEELS REAL.

Cheers

Your echo,

[Seekerz]

.. and let's look more deeply into it, more searchingly. Of course we will have to pretend that it's happening NOW (if it isn't), but let's do that. Can you find anything in there which is (T): thoughts, interpretations, descriptions, assumptions, mental images. eg is it mind activity which interprets these sounds as 'colleagues'? or is that (E). Is it mind processing which interprets the sounds of 'nearby' from those of 'far away'? or is that (E). If it's (E), how do you know that? How is that experienced? Can you find any other aspects which might be (T) or is it DEFEINITELY all (E)?

Hey Mark,

It is all "E" until you look deeply, it is the mind that says "thats a sound of coughing", "that is X talking", "that is laughter", it like a perpetual "labelling engine" which has to give meaning to the inputs it gets and more often than not starts a narrative on labels and goes on and on in this fasion.

I feel like i want to describe it as an "E" of the "T" but that would not be to accurate i suppose since these events are not occuring for "me" they would go on without me but the mind wants to make it about "me"

Does it make sense?

[ElPortal]

Great, Iq

Seeing the screen and typing and knowing what i am going to speak about next
The feeling of arm resting on my skin
The smell of my perfume
Looking around my "view scape", i have the computer, the bottle at my desk, the cables, my phone,
I can hear my colleagues talk nearby, i can hear some people chat far away
All these are happening in my Now" which should count as (E)

And now let's look into another aspect of this. When you say:

I can hear my colleagues talk nearby, i can hear some people chat far away

... what is this "I"? Please tell me what you are referring? Is that (E) or (T). Please describe it as fully as you can, in all the ways it appears NOW? Label them (E) or (T) each time.

Cheers

Mark

[Seekerz]

"By "I", i am referring to the this physical being that is here doing all this thinking, doing, typing, in that sense it is an experience"

Gosh! as i finished typing those 2 lines, i see the contradiction in what i just said, i am confusing myself ("I") as a physical being who is experiencing an illusion of the mind for a reality, so it is a physical body that is confusing " T " for "E"

But is it really "T" a part of me asks? i mean these things out there are actually happening arent they? i mean i know my mind in interpreting it as whatever but these people are actually there, there is a floor a computer , a christmas tree these cant be "T" these have to be "E"

[ElPortal]

Nurse, nurse, quick: unplug the christmas tree!

So what is it that is experiencing (E) "this physical being... doing all this thinking, doing, typing"?

So what is it that is interpreting this experience as (T) "these people are actually here.... there is a floor, a computer, a christmas tree"?

The story, the history of Iq: can that be found in experience (E), or only in thought (T)?

What is the experience of any separate individual in (E)? Please describe that to me, if you can.

LOOK.

Cheers

Mark

[Seekerz]

Mark,

From an 3rd party perspective "iq" is an experience, however when i look for the centre that you are referring to i want to define it as my body but when i try to define the "i" that says "my" body cant find anything beside (T)

[ElPortal]

So what is left?

[Seekerz]

Just Thought!

Mark, at this point i must say the persistence of the how the "I" keeps telling me "no no dont listen to that you are your body, look here you can see, you can touch, feel, you are doing it, see i am telling you"

[ElPortal]

Hi Iq

Just Thought!

How does this feel? Please can you report to me that actual FEELINGS (direct experience) that are coming up now.

the persistence of the how the "I" keeps telling me "no no dont listen to that you are your body, look here you can see, you can touch, feel, you are doing it, see i am telling you"

What is this "the 'I'" that seems to be telling you stuff? Is it (E) or (T)? What are is/are the actual DIRECT FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE, when you subtract the commentary contents?

Cheers

Mark

[Seekerz]

How does this feel? Please can you report to me that actual FEELINGS (direct experience) that are coming up now.

I feel settled, light, unreal!

What is this "the 'I'" that seems to be telling you stuff? Is it (E) or (T)? What are is/are the actual DIRECT FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE, when you subtract the commentary contents?

The direct experience is that the commentary and opinion is a thought, a thought which is a illusion, seems to reaffirming itself against its illusory nature?
Does that make sense?

[ElPortal]

Hi Iq

I feel settled, light, unreal!

Cool! So, a settled, light, unreal feeling. Does it belong to anyone, to any individual?

The direct experience is that the commentary and opinion is a thought, a thought which is a illusion, seems to reaffirming itself against its illusory nature?
Does that make sense?

Not sure. Main thing is if it makes sense at your end!

So can any individual be found? Please look. Take time (some of responses are very fast!!).. and let me know.
What questions remain? Anything and everything is ok.

Cheers

Mark

[Seekerz]

Mark, i remember as a 5 year old on my way to school the bus would go through some beautiful green hills and when it was raining it was heavenly to watch, as a kid i could not understand that concept of "beauty" but i could see myself just appreciate what i was looking at, more than a couple of these experiences left me speechless breathless and what accompanied was i think what the mystics/gurus call the dissolution of the "I", when you are just awareness one with that beauty with no "I"

Our dialogue has not lead to that experience but it is slowly sinking in, what was experienced then and what is experienced now is somehow the same thing with one major difference, there was no effort to see through the mist.

I just came back from a contemplative quiet walk to really feel this realization

[ElPortal]

Hi Iq

Thanks for sharing that. Yes, sometimes realisation, and glimpses of it, can be sudden and in other cases can sink in gradually. Sometimes each question, each part of the illusion being looked into, is investigated carefully until seen through. Sometimes resistances, fears, etc are come to terms with and then seeing bursts like a dam.

what the mystics/gurus call the dissolution of the "I"

.. but when we look really carefully, can we find that there ever was any real individual called 'I'? So it may not be a case of a new state to be attained, but rather seeing what has always been the case.

A lot of ground has been covered in the last 24 hours. Maybe now is a good time to continue to let it all sink in. Maybe tomorrow, come back to me with whatever issues are coming up.

There is certainly plenty more to be investigated, if the appetite is there....

Warmly

Mark