looking for a guide

[simplybodhi]

Hello Ronald - hope all is well,

I failed to mention that I am a full-time psychotherapist and am telling you now to make you aware that psychobabble bullshit may be coming your way!

Who is thinking this I-thought?

No one is thinking the "I" thought because no one as controller/protector exists. The "I" seems to have become self-arising and self-sufficient. Since word thoughts, image thoughts, emotions and memories are directly or indirectly connected and interconnected in an intricate web, it only takes one of those internal experiences and "I" has all it needs to build itself, especially because we do not have any control over the initial thought, feeling or memory.

We do have a say in whether or not we'll attach ourselves to that initial thought or be averse to it; either way attachment or aversion are both acceptable fuel for the "I".

In the continuous letting go of internal experiences that appear, there is still the false-self's propensity to gather these thoughts/feelings to reconstruct itself. "I" is sneaky and when letting thoughts come and go, one should be mindful of the ego's magnetic abilities to gather them all and build the false-self. So letting go of control and allowing everything to be as it is, as beautiful as it sounds, only allows the habitual false-self to self-arise and self-sustain.

Who is noticing the I-thought?

Pure Awareness, Consciousness or the other various names that have been given to it. This awareness is the thread of continuity that has been with us since birth. This is the context in which our lives unfold and not the contents that the false-self so badly needs! It is the same awareness that has been watching every single thing that we've been through and yet has been unaffected. It simply watches without bias or judgment.

All the best,
Mark

[Ronald]

Dear Mark,

Hope you had a good Easter.

Thanks for your information, don’t worry, Ha, Ha…. therapists can also go through the Gate....first hand experience.

No one is thinking the "I" thought because no one as controller/protector exists.

Yes! Can we say that the mind is just labelling an experience with the word I ?
Can you look at this process and tell me how it works with breathing. Is there an 'I' breathing?

The "I" seems to have become self-arising and self-sufficient. Since word thoughts, image thoughts, emotions and memories are directly or indirectly connected and interconnected in an intricate web, it only takes one of those internal experiences and "I" has all it needs to build itself, especially because we do not have any control over the initial thought, feeling or memory.

Yes, very good it’s a feedback loop with an illusionary-I in the middle.

We do have a say in whether or not we'll attach ourselves to that initial thought or be averse to it; either way attachment or aversion are both acceptable fuel for the "I".

Is there a "I " that does have a say in whether or not I’ll attach myself to the initial thought?

one should be mindful of the ego's magnetic abilities to gather them all and build the false-self. So letting go of control and allowing everything to be as it is, as beautiful as it sounds, only allows the habitual false-self to self-arise and self-sustain.

Who is letting go of control ? Is there an I that can let go or not let go ?

You are doing great, keep things simple, because they are simple.
Please answer the questions as if they are asked by a young child.....

All the best,

Ronald

[simplybodhi]

Ronald,

I hope you had a nice Easter as well.

Is there a "I " that does have a say in whether or not I’ll attach myself to the initial thought?

Who is letting go of control ? Is there an I that can let go or not let go ?

I will need some time with these as things are getting more difficult.

I wanted to address something that may or may not be relevant to the above but you did say keep it simple and use my direct experience. In the midst of an argument with my wife, there was something that realized that "I" or the character of Mark was attempting to win the usual/typical argument acting out a longstanding habitual pattern. Something, not sure what, inside just thought "Oh my God, Mark is trying to win but he doesn't even exist" and that something started to speak to Mark in the 2nd person and said to Mark, something like "you don't exist and this argument is two characters fighting but the characters are not real". A smile came across my face regarding the whole matter and I simply stopped talking and stopped arguing, realizing Mark doesn't have to win because Mark doesn't exist; it's all an illusion.

The "I" or Mark was not upset about this but instead there was a sense of relief. This "stopping" led to a better interaction with my wife with a much quicker and better outcome. Lying there and realizing how silly it all was, a slight smile or grin stayed on my face and a realization that whatever the outcome, with Mark being reminded he doesn't exist, the interacting was healthier (no one to win or lose). I experienced a knot or a feeling of a hard dense heavy ball the size of a golf ball in my head as Mark.

After all of this the question arose in my head, "Who spoke with Mark and who told Mark he doesn't exist?"

Not sure if this makes sense, what to make of it or if it is simply "I" recognizing "I"?

Many thanks,
Mark

[simplybodhi]

Who is letting go of control ? Is there an I that can let go or not let go ?
Is there a "I " that does have a say in whether or not I’ll attach myself to the initial thought?

Unsure whether your not responding was intentional but there appears to be reason for that, like you recognized something that took some time for recognition on this end.

There is existence. There is a feeling that all subjects whether explicit or implicit in writing a sentence or in a thought is simply "I" and underneath lay subtler and subtler, more deceptive forms of "I".

So there is no one to let go and no one to attach and rather simply, there is a living organism.

The last 24+ hours offered multiple experiences of "holy shit", "that's it", "son of a bitch" and the one that really strikes a feeling chord, after re-reading the dialog and seeing the last thing written:

or if it is simply "I" recognizing "I"?

there arose "I'll be damned" with a big grin. Indirectly that last line written answers the questions at the top.

No one.

[Ronald]

Dear Mark,

I wrote you a reaction but didn’t sent it because you needed some more time, to work with the questions, and it worked out fine!!!!

So there is no one to let go and no one to attach and rather simply, there is a living organism.

Yes Mark , Holy shit...that’s it.....son of a bitch...Yes Mark..that’s it !!!!!

There is life, there are living organisms, there is a labelling mind....thoughts....feelings..sounds...smells, but there is no I .

there arose "I'll be damned" with a big grin. Indirectly that last line written answers the questions at the top.

No one.

You are entering the Gate Mark , enjoy !!!!

(this is what I wrote you and didn’t sent )

Our focus is on awakening or going through the Gate.
The argument with your wife is a dreamlike situation, with non existing I’s protecting their
non-existence. When you awake from this dream, it doesn’t really matter who was winning or losing, was feeling good or bad, was behaving good or bad...etc.. because it was just a dream..... so keep in mind that this work is not about improving a non existing I.... but on seeing that there is no I and that there never has been an I.

Can you rewrite the argument with your wife, only using the words:

thought, feeling, action, emotion, sound, smell, image.

These questions can help you to look deeper....forget the “I” and surrender to the question?

Who is it that hears the sound?
or
Who is it that’s breathing ?

Please answer the questions above (you know the answer already), and explain what is really happening,it will help you to get a solid grip on the no-one.

With love,

Ronald

[simplybodhi]

Dear Ronald,

Who is it that hears the sound?
or
Who is it that’s breathing ?

Hearing hears; breath breathes; thought thinks

explain what is really happening

There was a story of Mark embedded within and recognition saw Mark as false. Mark never existed; non-existence is no-thing and nothing cannot do.

With sincere appreciation,
Mark

[Ronald]

Dear Mark,

Keep on walking through that Gateless Gate, Mark!

Hearing hears; breath breathes; thought thinks

Could you say this even simpler, there is still a touch of separation…keep in mind that there is a process but nobody who does anything.Think of the exercise of re-writing the conflict with your wife….it can help you.

There was a story of Mark embedded within and recognition saw Mark as false. Mark never existed; non-existence is no-thing and nothing cannot do

I ask you to spend some time in nature and meditate on something that is happening in the moment; breathing, feeling, thinking..follow it to its root.

Is there a breather, or a feeler,or a seer, or a “recognitioner”…?

This doing/action/process did it come from something or from nothing…?

Beyond, beyond going beyond…

Jump into the void, dance the dance of truth!!

Ronald

[simplybodhi]

Thanks a lot Ronald - I truly appreciate Everything!

There is a tendency in me to want to go fast so it seems appropriate to "sit with" your last post and everything else so far for a couple of days and post back Sunday night. Sound good?

Thanks,
Mark

[Ronald]

You are welcome, Mark.

Don't push the river.....

Take your time I'm looking forward to your insights.

Ronald

[simplybodhi]

Ronald,

Hope you had a pleasant weekend.

Re-writing the argument looks something like this:

thought. thought. action. emotion. emotion. action. feeling.

Who is it that hears the sound?
or
Who is it that’s breathing ?

No one hears sound and no one breathes.

When I sit with these and follow to the root,there is no root but instead there is co-occurring breathing, sound, feeling, seeing, thought, action. All things happening simultaneously and without a doer or experiencer.

"no one hears the sound", instead the human being's auditory faculty hears sound but there is no thing beyond or within the human as separate or distinct from the human.

Mark

[Ronald]

Dear Mark,

Yes I had a good weekend, and you had a fruitful one…!!!!

Quote: thought. thought. action. emotion. emotion. action. feeling.

Exactly they follow each other automatically, based on conditioning and fear... the doing is without a doer.

When I sit with these and follow to the root, there is no root ...

All things happening simultaneously and without a doer or experiencer.

"no one hears the sound",

Very good observations, all phenomena are empty.......nobody home...isn't that a miracle ?!

I think you have seen it Mark, and unless you have any questions for me..I have the last 5 questions for you!


1)Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works?

3) How does it feel to see this?

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it?

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Succes Simply Bodhi,

with love,

Ronald

[simplybodhi]

Ronald,

Thanks for your patience - first question for clarification, do you want me to answer those last five questions on this thread and/or where to go from here?

Mark

[Ronald]

Dear Mark,

It is a standard procedure to give the client at the end of a thread the 5 questions I gave to you.
After you’ve answered the questions, as usual on this thread , I can ask you for a clarification.
When it’s clear to me that you’ve gone through the Gate, I’ll have to ask 3 other guides whether they have questions or if they can confirm my judgement and then you’ll be marked as blue which means you are liberated. After that there’ll be more information.
Hope everything is clear, if you still have questions, please ask them,

All the best,

Ronald

[simplybodhi]

Thanks Ronald - that was great clarification!

1)Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No "me" at all, ever and there never was.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works?

The separate self starts off with the birth of a baby followed by programming to believe itself to be a someone, an entity with a name that is in charge.

3) How does it feel to see this?

No one feels anything but feelings arise within the human being. Surprise, shock, happiness, sadness, elation and freedom from the constriction of the illusion of self.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it?

I wouldn't; I would instead ask, "what's curious?".

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I consistently listened to the advice to go to nature and just sit with the enquiry.

Mark

[Ronald]

Dear Mark,

There is a question from one of the other guides as to what you mean by...

feelings arise within the human being

Could you describe this in other words.

All the best,

Ronald