Would be thankful for guidance.

[JonathanR]

Hi Earnest,

It seems that “I” have gone through the gateless gate, Jon! I hesitate to say it, as there are still doubting thoughts, but a “self” is nowhere to be found except in thoughts of a self.

It is good that you are telling me this. I tend to agree.

I'd like to ask you two sets of three questions now. We always ask these at this stage and they sometimes lead to further useful inquiry or looking.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2)Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3)How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.


best wishes,

Jon

[EarnestP]

Hi Jon,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, I can’t see a separate “self” except in thoughts. If there is no separate "I" now, there can never have been a separate “I”.

Having said that – it is clear when I look that there is no separation, but I find I easily revert to the thought-based “I” view of reality. Then when I look, I can’t find it. In any case, the baseline relaxation I’ve been experiencing over the past week or so is present in the background at these times.

2)Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of separate self is based in thought. It consists in representing as an object the livingness experiencing through this body. I imagine it started early in childhood when things and people began to be represented in thought as discrete entities – parents treated this body and the livingness associated with it as an entity, and so gradually this livingness became represented in thought as an “I”. (Of course I’m just imagining how this might have happened to answer the question.) As an adult, life is lived mediated through thought, and so somehow aliveness/livingness is “painted into a corner”, as it were. A whole life is built up in thought, consisting of memory of a self and projections of a self in the future, and the livingness which is here, now, and free from all this goes largely unnoticed. When the body moves, there is the thought “I am moving the body.” When a thought appears, there is a thought “I thought the thought”, and so on.

3)How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

As I mentioned to you previously, I’ve been feeling a fundamental sense of relaxation, of having “let go” of my life, since that moment of intensified looking for a “self” a week ago. This wasn’t present before; and although it’s often subtle, it has remained over the week. Sometimes I feel it more strongly. There is a tendency to relax into experience, rather than go into flights of thought. There is less anxiety about future events. I didn’t immediately understand what had happened, but I noticed on Saturday, while looking for a “self” that I wasn’t really expecting to find one. I’m not sure if that’s quite what I want to say, but it’s the best way I can say it. It was as if I realized that the “letting go” I felt was to do with not really needing to look for a self anymore. Something like that.

Having said that, I am often caught up in thoughts, and “my life”. I am often regarding myself as a separate entity, as thoughts of “me” and “my life” get in under the radar. But when I look for a self, I can’t find one. And there is always this relaxation, sometimes more to the fore, sometimes in the background.

Thanks, Jon.

Best wishes,
Earnest

[JonathanR]

Hi Earnest,

And thanks for your answers to these questions. Lovely answers!

Here are the remaining three to look at. Once you have answered we can take a look at what you have written:

4)What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5)Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

Best wishes,

Jon

[EarnestP]

Hi Jon,

4)What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

It was on Sunday evening (29 Nov) just after reading your post for that day on the forum. I was washing the dishes and looking to for a “self”. I was very tired and, as I remember, my looking was half-hearted. A thought came, something like, “this half-hearted looking is not really looking at all – I need to look earnestly.” As I looked, something gave and I felt a sense of relaxing deeply – as I mentioned to you before, it felt as if I’d let go of “my life”. This sense of relaxation, or of having let go, has continued since then. I didn’t know what to make of it immediately, but about a week later it became clearer that I’d somehow stopped believing, fundamentally at least, in the existence of a separate “self”.

5)Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

No. Decisions and choices happen without a “self”. There is no self controlling things, or making things happen. Right now, typing words is happening. There is no “self” choosing the words. I’ve been noticing as I move around my apartment doing things that the body just moves and acts. Often there is a thought like “I’d better do that now” and this is followed by an action corresponding to the thought – but the thought appears and the action is performed without a “self” behind it all. Earlier, “I was deciding” between two possibilities for dinner. The thought, “I don’t want farfalle and tuna – I had them yesterday” appeared. Then the thought, “I’m not really enthusiastic about tortellini and broccoli either – but I think I’ll have that just to finish the open packet of tortellini.” So it was decided. But there was no “I” thinking these thoughts or making a decision – the thoughts just appeared in succession, and the decision was in the thoughts.

6) Anything to add?

I’d like to say that I’m more than pleased with how this process has gone. Having let go of the burden of “my life” is no small thing. In one sense it doesn’t seem anything enormous, but in another way it does. I’m really enjoying the quiet when I’m not doing anything in particular – that is the default mode right now. Another thing – I have doubting thoughts as to whether I’ve really seen through the illusion of “I”. But increasingly, the thoughts seem less important, and the fact that no “I” is to be found upon looking is becoming the litmus test. And clarity is increasing as looking continues.

I’ll stop there for now.

Best wishes,
Earnest

[JonathanR]

Hi Earnest,

Thank you for these wonderful answers. I'm delightef for you!

I'd now like to invite the other guides to take a look at our conversation.. They may or may not. come back with further helpful pointers. It may take a day or so for a response but do, please, check back here.

Best

Jon

[JonathanR]

Hello Earnest,

Guides have already responded and they were unanimous and clear that they don't have more questions for you. As far as we are all concerned you are through the gateless gate. You have really been telling us this for a few days.

Congratulations! I am so pleased.

A few things can happen now. I will PM you details about this later today.


Our guiding conversation here is at an end but it is not the end of looking or investigation. It is possble to do further investigation and there is the seeing that there is no self that may seem to unfold as time goes by. There is also quite a growing online community of those that have gone through the gate and that is a wonderful resource. Anyway I will PM you with further details.

All the best,

Jon

[EarnestP]

Hi Jon,

That's great!

Thank you for your skilful guidance. I'm very grateful!

Best wishes,
Earnest