seeing through the illsion of self

[madinet41]

Hi.
The table is real. Cannot see any of the other three in direct experience. Even pain is not visible to the eyes.
Thankyou

[QuantSelfLaFont]

The table is real.

Correct. If you close your eyes the table does not disappear. If you stop believing in table it remains.

Cannot see any of the other three in direct experience.

Sensation is real. Pain is a story. If you are ill and if you are running a marathon the sensations are quite similar. The attribution of "pain" to one and "achievement" to the other is a story based on context.

Even pain is not visible to the eyes

Question1: Is being visible to the eyes a requirement for being real?

Theory: "If two human bodies are not 'separate' they can feel pain in common."

Question2: Talk about your theory given your insights above.

Thanks!

[madinet41]

I love that you wont give up on me! (Story).
I suppose the eyes dont have to see something for it to be real. The computer is in next room and the eyes cant see it buf itz still there. Two bodies nof separate coud maybe feel shared pain like siamese twins maybe

Realised there are bodies but no self in the bodies and that the body experiences sensation but there is no self to be found. I was getting confused thinking because this body felt pain but the one next to me didnt then there must be a separate me. But i was reading a little on LU and the body has proprieceptors for location but there doesnt need a self fo this to work
There is bodies but no selvez
Thankyou

[QuantSelfLaFont]

you wont give up

We return together to continue the walk. All good.

the eyes dont have to see something for it to be real

Correct. Table is a good example. Close the eyes and it remains.

the body experiences sensation but there is no self to be found

Correct.

So sitting next to child you pinch and feel it, the child does not.

Question: Are you 100% certain you see how this is compatible with seeing through the illusion of a separate self?

If you are not 100% that is ok, lets work through it.

[madinet41]

Yes. 100% sure There is no i/me. I is just a thought. There is no separation there is just hearing thinking feeling but no me doing it. There is no My body. Just a body with everything functioning all on its own.
Thanks!

[QuantSelfLaFont]

Ok, review your answers:

Q1
There is no separate entity self or me. It is experienced as a thought only and thats it. And still is.
Q2
The sense of i came about 3yrs when i was told "this is you". No there was never a me, just stired memories. The illusion is a me in control. Someone who thinks, feels, acts.
It starts from the moment of waking "i need to get up" "i want some breakfast". The sense of self carries on all day in thought.
Q3.
It feels freer, emotions and thoughts not so gripping. Just coming and going.
q4.
There is no me making choices decisions with a free will. Choices just made then the thought " i did that".
Life force just doing its thing.
I am not responsible fir anything nor is an ybody else. When i tell my kids off it comes from conditioning not me. NO one to blame!
I always used to ferl people do things on purpose but realise thats impossible.
Q5
the hand flipping then the thought is what done it. So simple.

Question: Anything to add?

[madinet41]

Hi.
Everything seems the same. Thoughts still arising with the me story. In conversation with people i seems at its strongest or a conversation couldnt happen. But once conversation finished there is no thoughts now saying i should have said this or that as everything just flows. Noticing that conversation is so automatic. It just happens and its so fast that there couldnt possibly be a doer saying, say this next say that etc.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

Thoughts still arising with the me story. In conversation with people i seems at its strongest or a conversation couldnt happen. But once conversation finished there is no thoughts now saying i should have said this or that as everything just flows. Noticing that conversation is so automatic.

LU is about watching that ebb and flow of thought without drowning the swirl. I am going to have other Guides look at our discussion and see if they have questions.

Cheers

[madinet41]

Ok thanks

[QuantSelfLaFont]

We have no more questions for you.

Congratulations, and welcome through the Gateless Gate. It was a pleasure walking with you and pointing the way. You were great.

What happens next is I submit your name to Lex, our super admin, and he will turn the color of your name in this forum to blue. That indicates you have passed through.

We have private groups on Facebook where we hang out and let our minds roam a bit. There is an aftercare group where you can share insights as well as read others experience. I would highly recommend it. After you settle in you can explore helping others and perhaps someday do the Guiding yourself. But first things first, let's offer you some aftercare and go from there.

If you private message me your Facebook name we can invite you to those groups. We'll see you there.

Cheers,
Paul