seeing through the illsion of self

[madinet41]

Hi.
Okay a feeling of peace comes and go, s but is not a problem as its just another thought. "Im peaceful or im not peaceful" are just thoughts arising, coming and going but It doesnt feel like im losing anything as there is no one to lose it!
Emotions and feelings dont seem so personal. Its actually quite funny the more there is noticing of experiences then the i claiming everything!
I still needs to be used in communication with people though or it will just be weird. I almost feel like a fraud now using the i/me reference but its just a tool to use isnt it.
Thankyou so much. For showing that something that seemed so complicated was so obvious. I is a thought and nothing else. X

[QuantSelfLaFont]

Okay a feeling of peace comes and go, s but is not a problem as its just another thought. "Im peaceful or im not peaceful" are just thoughts arising, coming and going but It doesnt feel like im losing anything as there is no one to lose it!

Excellent!

Question: Are you absolutely confident you have seen through the illusion of self? Is there any doubt at all?

[madinet41]

No, no doubt. Although nothing has changed. Still telling the kids off! Haha. Maybe the conditioning will fall away gradually. Maybe not.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

Maybe the conditioning will fall away gradually. Maybe not.

Maybe, maybe not. You got that right.

I'm going to ask you six questions to see if there is anything we have not covered together. Take your time.

Question1: Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there
ever?

Question2: Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you seeit now.

Question3: How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

Question4: Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How
does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Question5: What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Question6: Anything to add?

Thanks

[madinet41]

Q1
There is no separate entity self or me. It is experienced as a thought only and thats it. And still is.
Q2
The sense of i came about 3yrs when i was told "this is you". No there was never a me, just stired memories. The illusion is a me in control. Someone who thinks, feels, acts.
It starts from the moment of waking "i need to get up" "i want some breakfast". The sense of self carries on all day in thought.
Q3.
It feels freer, emotions and thoughts not so gripping. Just coming and going.
q4.
There is no me making choices decisions with a free will. Choices just made then the thought " i did that".
Life force just doing its thing.
I am not responsible fir anything nor is an ybody else. When i tell my kids off it comes from conditioning not me. NO one to blame!
I always used to ferl people do things on purpose but realise thats impossible.
Q5
the hand flipping then the thought is what done it. So simple.
Q6
if you could clear up confusion about the body.
if there is pain and discomfort but its not MY body then how come its only me experiencing it and no other body?
Thankyou

[QuantSelfLaFont]

if there is pain and discomfort but its not MY body then how come its only me experiencing it and no other body?

OK, let's explore this to ensure clarity.

Exercise: Pinch yourself. Describe pain in direct experience from before the pinch to the end of the experience.

Question1: Where does the body end? What are its limits?

Question2: Who owns the body (MY vs Others)?

[madinet41]

Ok there is no sensation then tightness of skin then the thought arises "oww!" Then tightness stops when skin let go of.
The body ends where other objects begin eg at tip of toes body ends floor begins.
Q2 there is no me owning my body or other bodies but still the child next to me cannot feel pinching when i pinch my arm. So maybe then even tho its not my body it is only this body that is feeling the pinching.

[madinet41]

Ok more observations.
There is seeing there is hearing but this can be shared by other people. Eg hearing the dog barkin seeing the tree. But experiencing sensations like pain seems so personal as physical pain is not shared by the child (my son) next to me. It is only felt by this body. This is why still attatched to MY body. As no one else is experiencing it. Even tho aware there is no control over the body.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

there is no me owning my body

OK, you got it.

the child next to me cannot feel pinching when i pinch my arm.

The liver creates proteins necessary to sustain the system, yet when it does it you cannot feel it.

Question: Using your convention of shared sensation as a definition of "my" vs. "other", what explanation is there for not feeling the liver producing proteins? Is it an "other?"

[madinet41]

Cant explain why there is no feeling of the liver creating proteins. Understand it is not my liver. Maybe just conditioning of a sensation in the body, pain, itching etc and then thought " my body in pain, my body itching" but strengthened by the fact that in that moment there is pain but no one else is feeling it. No one can feel the liver doing its thing, but everybody can feel pain and so still feel its located in this body when it happens.
Maybe you could ask me a simpler question as it still seems to be this body that has pain and not feeling anybody elses.

[madinet41]

Just to add. Definately clear that sensations happen to no one but still feel located in a body.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

Cant explain why there is no feeling of the liver creating proteins.

So you can not feel the liver creating proteins.

Question1: Is the liver a part of "your" body?

The child did not feel the pinch.

Question2: Is the child part of "your" body?

Question3: What does this say about the definition of "your" body?

[madinet41]

Hi
No the liver is just part of the body not my body
The child is not part of my body but also not separate is it? Dont know. Very confused.
The definition of my body does not exist.
It still doesnt explain why there is say an experience of a headache right now and yet my son cant feel the headache so it can only be in my head and not his head cant it?
Sorry but really confused. If we are all one and not separate why dont we all feel the pain?

[madinet41]

Ok starting to recognise there could be pain located in a certain area like the head or stomach but its not my head or stomach. So maybe its just pain is being experienced in a certain location in the universe? Please make it clearer because feel like im going backwards. I suppose its the same with thoughts. The person standing next to me is having different thoughts. So is the universe just expressing itself in the form of thought, emotion, pain, in different bodies?
Thankyou. If you could reply soon.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

child is not part of my body but also not separate is it?

No, the child is not separate.

If we are all one and not separate why dont we all feel the pain?

The seeing of the illusion of self does not change nerve endings or physical structure of human beings.

So is the universe just expressing itself in the form of thought, emotion, pain, in different bodies?

Exercise: Of these four things: Table, pain from pinch, sharing pain across bodies, universe expressing itself in the form of thought. Which of these is real, and which is a theory arising from thought?