seeing through the illsion of self

[QuantSelfLaFont]

i that comes in to claim it is a thought.

Right

Im feeling an increase in stress and extremely tearful lately.

These flows do happen, yes. When they come on drop to Direct Experience and notice the sensation (ie constriction in chest, tears on face). Accept and embrace the sensation and report back when possible.

Exercise: Look down at palm of right hand. Hand flips over, look at back of hand. Palm again. Back again. Who, or what, is doing the flipping of the hand?

[madinet41]

Hi
The thought rushes in straight away "i am".
Thankyou

[QuantSelfLaFont]

The thought rushes in straight away "i am".

Try the exercise again. Palm. Back. Palm. Back.

Question: How does that work? Is there a command saying "flip" coming from "I"? Or does the hand just flip?

[madinet41]

The hand just flips then thought " i done that!"

[QuantSelfLaFont]

The hand just flips then thought " i done that!"

Good noticing. The narrative follows.

Question: Who, or what, is flipping the hand?

[madinet41]

Hello
There doesnt seem like anybody is flippin the hand. As i say the thought comes in just after the action. Everything is just happening spontaneously. This is getting clearer even though the thoughts are so strong claiming 5he action.
Hope this doesnt sound too vulgar but it feels like i am controlling going the toilet or i would be like a baby wouldnt i? And just go? So arent i controlling that? Because it is being controlled by something or there would be accidents!

Thankyou

[QuantSelfLaFont]

There doesnt seem like anybody is flippin the hand. As i say the thought comes in just after the action. Everything is just happening spontaneously.

Great noticing.

Hope this doesnt sound too vulgar but it feels like i am controlling going the toilet or i would be like a baby wouldnt i? And just go? So arent i controlling that? Because it is being controlled by something or there would be accidents!

Interesting point, and not vulgar at all.

Question: Does "I" make the decision to wait on going to the toilet? How does that work?

[madinet41]

Hi
In direct experience there just seems to be a sense of waiting and again the i thought just after " il hang on" the waiting is just conditioning, having been taught to hold on and wait for a toilet.
Yes theres no i waiting. Just waiting

[madinet41]

All thought is giving the illusion of a separate self! Because all thought seems to refer to an i. A separate person in control. Theres no big feeling of bliss or happiness but feel more connected to people. Nobody is in control are they? So the blame and the guilt subsiding. The i thought still strong tho!
THanks

[QuantSelfLaFont]

there just seems to be a sense of waiting and again the i thought just after...theres no i waiting. Just waiting

Excellent noticing.

All thought is giving the illusion of a separate self! Because all thought seems to refer to an i. A separate person in control.

Good. Nice insight.

Nobody is in control are they?

You have that right.

You have several good examples of the sequence of how things occur.

Question: Do both experiencing and explanation that it was felt through the body happen simultaneously?

[madinet41]

Hi
Dont really understand that question. If you mean say, theres anger and then i would say straight away the thought "im angry" then yes it would be simultaneously but sometimes therr is no awareness of i, just a feeling of stress in the body or pain etc
Thankyou

[madinet41]

Noticing now the experience comes first and explanation after.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

therr is no awareness of i, just a feeling of stress in the body or pain

Right

Noticing now the experience comes first and explanation after.

Ok, good.

The hand just flips, explanation comes after. The "I" arrives in the explanation.

Question: What is "I"?

[madinet41]

A thought. A fiction. A story!

[QuantSelfLaFont]

A thought. A fiction. A story!

Excellent! Exactly right.

Your original expectation was for a feeling of peace. And you talked about some emotional and tearful moments during the process.

Exercise: From the current perspective, comment on your original expectation. What is the feeling and experience now?