Would like to be guided by s-p-a-c-e

[s-p-a-c-e]

Good stuff! So, when you don't seem to have control, what might happen, that you're afraid could happen?
What is in danger of being exposed?

/john

[donjohnsan]

Oh, all sorts of things. Financial trouble, not being able to take care of myself, failing, being inadequate/not good enough, not being able to sustain a certain idea that I have of myself. Such things.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Ah, all the good stuff. :) This is a common kind of pull to maintain hold of the "me in control" fiction. Whatever the circumstances in life, right here the focus is on this lived assumption of "being me". Without the ground of "being me" as fact, what happens to the concept of control? Is there still "me in control"? Without "me in control", would a car veer of a road, would finances stop being looked after, would a human life stop loving, living, enjoying? :) - check it out.

You know that "Donny" is droppable. Otherwise, there'd be no fear. In a sense, "he" has already been dropped as "who you are". But you know that. :) So take it as one calm step after another.

Share discoveries.

/john

[donjohnsan]

Yeah actually, I mean, if there never was "me" (which there wasn't), then there is no control to be lost or gained either.

It was just that I noticed that on a "human level" - psychologically - there is a lot of hanging onto and fear of losing control. So I thought maybe it also played into this investigation in some way. Just trying to see where I'm stuck :-)

I do know this self can be dropped. Maybe the letting go of self is a slow process here. Like a snake shedding skin. Although I think they're faster, but maybe this "I" is kind of heavy to crawl out of :-)

[s-p-a-c-e]

Well, as you have seen, the so-called "I" is simply an habitual identification with a made-up character - we believe this character is an independent being that lives inside the body, looks out the eyes, thinks and does. This character, apparently, protects us from feeling hurt; "it" believes "it" is not good enough, it is like fictional velcro for all the stories "we" have about "me" that stick to it. At the same time, I admire the virtuosity. If there was a Turner Prize for Illusions - it would sail it.

So, the "hanging on" - what is actually happening here - what is hanging on to what? Explore.

/John

[donjohnsan]

"Hanging on" seems to be thought patterns. Recurring themes or content. It also appears that this all belongs to one organism, a body with thoughts and sensations. There's no control over any of it, but it's a unitary thing, it all interacts. Feelings and sensations lead to thoughts, thoughts in their own turn can lead to emotions, or sensations through actions. It's all connected.

I think I feel confused about it. As in, not knowing how I'm supposed to act or behave in any other way than from the idea of a person. I see it but I don't. It's like... hmm. How you can walk around an optical illusion, and realise actually the dragon face is not following you with its gaze at all, but as soon as you stand in front of it, it seems to be looking at you and following you with its gaze again. Even though you know it isn't. And then you walk around it again, and indeed, no actual possibility for it to follow me as I move. But I stand in front of it, and there it goes again.

[s-p-a-c-e]

"I think I feel confused about it. As in, not knowing how I'm supposed to act or behave in any other way than from the idea of a person." - spend a day, drop "Donny" completely, act on impulse with what shows up - and report back. :)

Thanks,
john

[donjohnsan]

Roger! Thanks for the patience and support John. Really appreciate it.

[s-p-a-c-e]

:) Roger and out.

[donjohnsan]

Hmm that seems to be both impossible and the only thing you could do.
I couldn't be conscious all day of 'dropping I', but at the same time I can only act impulsively, or impulsive acting is what happens. There's nothing else to be done. Everything has always been impulsive. There has never been any self anywhere in there. No evidence of it either. I actually have no idea how any of this worked, because it's like there's an idea of self but when you look it goes up in smoke, so how did this idea even come about? It's weird.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hmm that seems to be both impossible and the only thing you could do.
I couldn't be conscious all day of 'dropping I', but at the same time I can only act impulsively, or impulsive acting is what happens. There's nothing else to be done. Everything has always been impulsive. There has never been any self anywhere in there. No evidence of it either. I actually have no idea how any of this worked, because it's like there's an idea of self but when you look it goes up in smoke, so how did this idea even come about? It's weird.

haha excellent. :) Smoke & mirrors.

So you getting it? Whether you hold on to "me" or not, makes not one sod of difference.

ta,
John

[donjohnsan]

Yes sir. Holding on or not holding on, there is no holding on. :-) There mind be some chatter about it, but whatever. And it's for no one to control either. So yeah, what can you do. Same thing I've always done I guess (or maybe not!) :-)

[donjohnsan]

Oh that's a funny Freudian. I meant "there MIGHT be...."

[s-p-a-c-e]

So,

Is the fiction of "me" anything graspable?
Is there any fucking point to holding on to a pretence?

What's left?

/john

[donjohnsan]

Nope. No point.
What's left: everything - because nothing actual was lost :)
What the implications will be, time will tell... maybe a bit more of a 'oh right....', and less cramping up.