could i have help please

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Mike,

Thanks.

Does it matter to the existence of "Mike" whether your are 'present' or not?

Who is 'present'?

Best wishes,
John

[mike-b]

Hi John,

Does it matter to the existence of "Mike" whether your are 'present' or not?

When i am present, Mike is never there, in fact he isn't there anymore

Who is 'present'?

This is what i struggle with John, in the absence of Mike i don't know who it is that is present

Mike

[s-p-a-c-e]

Mike,

Presence - being in that place you're calling 'presence', what happens when you set aside the label 'presence' and look and feel and sense the ground of what is happening.

Report what is noticed, as if you had never heard the word 'presence'.

Thanks!
John

[mike-b]

Hi John,

Thinking maybe you have your work cut out with me! think i should have nailed this by now, but here we go!

what happens when you set aside the label 'presence' and look and feel and sense the ground of what is happening.

When i am in that 'place' i feel a slight shift in perception, i feel very grounded and aware of everything happening, be it my heart beat or a double decker bus passing by, i'm very much 'in the moment' i stay focused and don't dwell in the past or worry about things that haven't happened, i think only of what is happening at that precise moment.
Although it isn't euphoria, i experience a very nice feeling, almost as if an energy is flowing through my body, i'm not as troubled by thoughts as i used to be, although sometimes i notice them chattering away to themselves in the background, as if they are a long way away, and not troubling me.

Emptiness and clarity are two words that i have read over and over again without really knowing what they referred to. I now believe that this is what i am experiencing at the moment, and am able to maintain this for longer and longer.

I have been focusing all of my attention on 'who i am' asking 'who is driving this lorry', 'who is eating this food', in the hope that sooner or later something will be revealed to me, at the same time i periodically tell myself that 'mike' is no longer here, to strengthen the knowledge within myself that there is no longer a self.
I know that i am getting closer since you have been guiding me in the right direction and making me look closer at myself, i just need a breakthrough

Thank you,


Mike

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi John,

Thinking maybe you have your work cut out with me! think i should have nailed this by now, but here we go!

Nothing to nail Mike :) - everything is ticketyboo. Just don't get bored by the questions. :) I'm on your side, we walk along together.

/john

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Mike,

You can look for 'Mike' till the cows come home, but are you going to find 'him'.

Look - 'he' is not a he. 'he' is a story. See?

/John

[mike-b]

Hello John,

Won't get bored with the questions, just wish i had found this site earlier!

You can look for 'Mike' till the cows come home, but are you going to find 'him'.

Of course not, he was never there anyway!

Look - 'he' is not a he. 'he' is a story. See?

Yes! i do see, never anything more than a story that i wrote and added to over the years

Mike

[s-p-a-c-e]

At what point do you give up looking for the unfindable?

/john

[mike-b]

Hi John,

At what point do you give up looking for the unfindable?

I have given up looking for Mike, but then who am i ?

Mike

[s-p-a-c-e]

Mike,

Hi John,

At what point do you give up looking for the unfindable?

I have given up looking for Mike, but then who am i ?

Well, what are the options?

:)

/john

[mike-b]

Hi John,

Well, what are the options?

I suppose the options for me as to who i am, with what i know and where i am at the moment, are that 'I' am a 'watcher' or some kind of 'witness' to my consciousness and that somehow my awareness is the tool i use to witness what i am experiencing

Mike

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi John,

Well, what are the options?

I suppose the options for me as to who i am, with what i know and where i am at the moment, are that 'I' am a 'watcher' or some kind of 'witness' to my consciousness and that somehow my awareness is the tool i use to witness what i am experiencing

That's one option - and there are plenty of folk out there who will confirm that.
The only authority we're interested in here is what reveals in the depth of experience.

There is an experience - you can call it "winessing" or "being a watcher"

This is where language is useful, because it reveals very clearly the desire to identify AS 'SOMETHING' whether that be an idea (me) or a feeling/perspective (watcher).

Can being not take care of itself?

Do you need to make some conclusion to 'rest in'?

By adopting a new identification, do you see the similarities with identifying with 'self'?

Is identification with 'something' necessary for life?

What if there is nothing to identify?
So nothing can be me, a watcher, or anything else.

Stay with that for a while.

Thanks,
John

[mike-b]

Hi John,

There is an experience - you can call it "winessing" or "being a watcher"

This is where language is useful, because it reveals very clearly the desire to identify AS 'SOMETHING' whether that be an idea (me) or a feeling/perspective (watcher).

Can being not take care of itself?

Do you need to make some conclusion to 'rest in'?

By adopting a new identification, do you see the similarities with identifying with 'self'?

Is identification with 'something' necessary for life?

What if there is nothing to identify?
So nothing can be me, a watcher, or anything else.

Stay with that for a while.

I had to give this a lot of thought, well actually not thought, i had to experience it, and although i didn't initially feel comfortable with what you are saying i spent a few hours last night resting in my awareness but putting into practice what you suggested, and guess what i came up with......

it's the same experience whatever i call it, or believe it to originate from.

I may be wrong but i think you are saying just that, that it doesn't matter what label you give something, it is the experience itself that is important!

Mike

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Mike,

I had to give this a lot of thought, well actually not thought, i had to experience it, and although i didn't initially feel comfortable with what you are saying i spent a few hours last night resting in my awareness but putting into practice what you suggested, and guess what i came up with......

it's the same experience whatever i call it, or believe it to originate from.

I may be wrong but i think you are saying just that, that it doesn't matter what label you give something, it is the experience itself that is important!

Indeed. Feel the open-ness of the experience, free from calling it this or that.

It is - as it is. You notice that?

Have a deep play with it - in this "awareness state", make it the "Witness state" and see if there aren't subtle differences.

See thru the thought "Witness" - see it as it is - a thought.

Is being aware dependent on you? Check - isn't it always there?
Just like there is no need to witness, is there any need to have my awareness?

For a day, drop completely the staying in "awareness".
Let it be - as it is.

Best wishes,
John

[mike-b]

Hi John,

Indeed. Feel the open-ness of the experience, free from calling it this or that.

It is - as it is. You notice that?

Have a deep play with it - in this "awareness state", make it the "Witness state" and see if there aren't subtle differences.

See thru the thought "Witness" - see it as it is - a thought.

Is being aware dependent on you? Check - isn't it always there?
Just like there is no need to witness, is there any need to have my awareness?

For a day, drop completely the staying in "awareness".
Let it be - as it is.

Yes, I see what you are saying, the 'watcher' and 'my awareness' are thoughts, it is so much easier to just leave well alone and enjoy the experience.

Mike