Would like to be guided by s-p-a-c-e

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi,

Hmm yes, emotions seem to hold a lot of 'me' to them. Especially the "negative" ones of course. Fear, anger, frustration.

Choosing what to wear seems to be a process of liking-disliking + what's available. "No, not that" --> gut reaction. "Yeah, I'll wear that" --> feels ok, no strong negative gut reaction. And then of course the availability of clothes, which can sometimes lead to frustration: "I wanted to wear..... but it's in the laundry." --> that's thoughts, images, and then feelings of disappointment.
So there's no real choosing to be found. It's more like input-processing-output (where "processing" isn't actually visible).

Thanks for the choosing reply. :)

On the emotions with "me" in them, pick one, with a sense of "me" - and pierce directly into that sense of "me" to see CLEARLY the non-existence of this "me" as who you are.

Interested to hear how you get on.

Thanks,
John

[donjohnsan]

Hey John,

Just wanted to say that I've been swamped with my studies and will get back to you soon. Maybe later today, otherwise tomorrow.

Best

[s-p-a-c-e]

Cool - thanks Donny!

[donjohnsan]

Hi John,

Took me a while still. Sorry about that.
Anyway, I do see it, I think. There's no one to observe anything, or do anything. So if thoughts do not always contain the content of "realising that there is no self" that doesn't mean anything. They are just thoughts arising. Observing is just happening. The whole play happens.
Emotions too. They don't actually feel personal. What I used to call "feeling personal" is just something imagined. There's just a feeling. And of course it can feel really strong, 'terrible', but it is still just a feeling. There is no ownership in it.
I think there's a lot to explore for me from here on, but I think I have the basics down. There's just no arguing with this (and no need to, and no possibility to, lol :-) ).

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Mike,

Just read this question and write what first comes:

How do you know that the separate self is an illusion?

Cheers!
John

[s-p-a-c-e]

Ooops...wrong thread. :)

[donjohnsan]

Hehe, well, I guess I don't. But yeah, it appears that way.

I know because there's no self to be found. And it can't be found, because whatever is searching ought to be the self, but you can then realise 'you' already weren't involved in the decision to begin searching. The thought just arose.

In a sense you could say that the brain is a sort of a self, but even the brain is just made up of interconnected neurons, so it's not "one" thing, it's many things creating something together, just like the particles of the universe. So... yeah, it's silly to have ever thought there was a self really. :)

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hehe, well, I guess I don't. But yeah, it appears that way.

I know because there's no self to be found. And it can't be found, because whatever is searching ought to be the self, but you can then realise 'you' already weren't involved in the decision to begin searching. The thought just arose.

In a sense you could say that the brain is a sort of a self, but even the brain is just made up of interconnected neurons, so it's not "one" thing, it's many things creating something together, just like the particles of the universe. So... yeah, it's silly to have ever thought there was a self really. :)

Ok, so there is a lot of thinking ABOUT self.

With the attention around the head space, look in every corner, scan every inch, behind the eyes, then into the chest, stomach - for a possibility of a self. I want there to be not a shadow of a doubt that "little Donny" isn't hiding in a nook somewhere pulling levers.

"he" is not a he. "he" is no more as a viable, living being. gone.

/John

[donjohnsan]

Well, as I've said before, most of the actions happen seem to happen "as Donny" (of course not literally), and then aftwards there is sometimes the realisation: oh wait, but when did I decide? I didn't. So, it's observed and known, but it's not a constant awareness.
Should it be? And if so, what do you recommend? Just checking as many times a day as humanly possible until...?

[s-p-a-c-e]

Well, as I've said before, most of the actions happen seem to happen "as Donny" (of course not literally), and then aftwards there is sometimes the realisation: oh wait, but when did I decide? I didn't. So, it's observed and known, but it's not a constant awareness.
Should it be? And if so, what do you recommend? Just checking as many times a day as humanly possible until...?

How is it known? In the bones? Or mentally?

Is there any sense of holding on to being Donny in any shape or form?

Ta,
John

[donjohnsan]

Yes, John, actually there is. Took me a while to admit it. I'm trying to find where it is. I can't locate or define what it is. Frustration arising again. I wish I had one of these Eckhart Tolle "Who is the I that cannot live with himself anymore?" type of insights. Why doesn't it click? I feel like a retard.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Yes, John, actually there is. Took me a while to admit it. I'm trying to find where it is. I can't locate or define what it is. Frustration arising again. I wish I had one of these Eckhart Tolle "Who is the I that cannot live with himself anymore?" type of insights. Why doesn't it click? I feel like a retard.

We're just pulling the threads away from the imagined reality of self. This fabric took some weaving :) so its all good.

Now, this 'holding on to Donny' - speak to this part that wants to hold on to Donny, and thank it for doing what it thinks is best.

However, share with this part that you have decided to let go of Donny, as being who you are. That sooner or later, this will happen, and Donny will be what it always was "made up". You know that in no uncertain terms, and there's no point continuing as a fictional character when Batman has all the best costumes.

Do that and see what response shows up.

Thanks,
John

[donjohnsan]

An exited fear, like what you would get when you were about to board a roller coaster. A feeling of anticipation too, of something happening, but then the feeling subsides again.

[s-p-a-c-e]

An exited fear, like what you would get when you were about to board a roller coaster. A feeling of anticipation too, of something happening, but then the feeling subsides again.

Cool. Sounds like walking towards a place in which something will let go of you.
Like an apple waiting to drop.

Nothing to do, but smile really. :)

/John

[donjohnsan]

Wow John. I have realised something, of which I only realised this morning how important it is or might be for our investigation. I've been reflecting, and noticed that every problem I have is related to (illusory) control. There are so many things that I want to be in control over (in certain things, in some sense, succesfully), and everything that causes me anxiety, seems to be something where I don't have control. So, maybe then, it is no wonder that on some level unbeknownst to me there is a lot of fear to let go of self -- with a personality so controlling and fearful of not having control - even in the everyday sense. I don't notice that fear too much in our investigation really, but it kind of has to be there...