Requesting A Guide

[ach07]

Hi,
My name is Achal. I have been into this sort of thing for quite some time. It seems to interest me very much to the point that everything else seem worthless.
I have been listening to UG Krishnamurty, Sam Harris and Alan Watts for quite some time.I believe that there is no self and all the things said make sense to some level but I want to get into the experience side of it.
I have also written a blog about it. You can check it out : http://achalgoyal.blogspot.in/
I expect to meet similar kind of people here, with a similar outlook to these things and I will be able to understand things better.

[itstopshere]

Hello Achal,

The point of this forum is to be guided to seeing no self. We work one-on-one in these threads with clients who wish to see for themselves. So it's not a coffee house style forum. Once you are confirmed however, we do have some Facebook groups you might be interested in joining. Presently we use Facebook as our backbone.

So, if you're interested we can have a chat and see where we end up. For this however I need to ask you to keep your answers as brief and to the point as possible, and to instead of think about answers, LOOK, observe what happens "inside" and "outside". That's all that is required and it will be very obvious. I am in GTM+1, what is your time zone?

Best,

Ricardo

[ach07]

Hi Ricardo,

I am in GMT + 5:30. I would love to have a chat on this topic.
One thing I want to ask is that, do you believe in free will? and how different does life gets after the realization of no self? Do you see yourself as a robot?

[itstopshere]

Sorry Achal, but the format of our chat here is going to have to be a little bit different.
As I've told you, we are not thinking, we are looking. Therefore, speculation and belief are of no interest to our exchange :)
Also, this is a forum where the questions go in one direction: from guide to client. There are very specific reasons for this. Because my experience is not your experience, is one reason. Another is to stay away from thinking, which is irrelevant here. We don't want expectations to build up, we just want to go ahead and 'do it.'

So, if you can agree please to answer briefly, from direct experience without conjecture/thinking, and to keep it to answers and no questions unless things are not clear (because it's your investigation, I'm just pointing the way), then I say let's go ahead. Sorry if this seems strict, but as I said there are reasons.

Please agree to the above first, and then we can start with the investigation.

[ach07]

Okay. I agree to the above conditions.

[itstopshere]

Great Achal! Let's have some fun then. Oh by the way, do you have any expectations for this process? What do you think will happen? (it's fine to think about this one and answer intellectually)

Now for the looking. You said that you believe there is no self, and that you would like to see this in experience. Let's turn that around. Can you give me some examples of where there is a self? And what are the characteristics of this self? For example, move your arm a couple of times up and down. Who did that?
Try to answer every sentence endng with a question mark :-) (sometimes people skip questions..)

[ach07]

Hey!

I have read a book called "A way of zen". In that it generally happens at an instant. I am hoping the process will be like : I will keep thinking into this stuff. I will keep rotating these questions about self around in my mind, then one day, boom, all of a sudden there will be some kind of paradigm shift in the consciousness and I will realize that there is actually no "I".
When this "I" will fall out, the questions regarding enlightenment will fall out, for these are the questions pertaining to the self. As there is nobody to be enlightened, the question about the enlightenment will then be just a mere social construct set in our brains by the society. Feelings will not be then personal. Everything will just be a happening.
I might start taking life less seriously. Career, family and social life may become less importance. I may become a detached person. I may even lose the will to survive and fight for life, you know, a depressed kind of state.

[itstopshere]

I'm assuming you are still in the process of answering the other questions I asked, so I'm witholding my reply until you answer them.

[ach07]

Where there is a self? In the brain probably. There are moments in between the train of thoughts when there is a feeling of the self. When I am conscious, in the present moment, looking at things, there is deep feeling that I am the observer looking outside and then the train took over again.
Nature of self? The self wants to take control. It wants the betterment of itself. It wants itself to grow. It wants it to be the best. I have day dreams about me doing something heroic. If I have to study for an exam and I am having fun with friends and enjoying my time , lost in talking and listening, then there will come a self saying that I have to study. It's like a commanding force saying that I have done enough fun and it's time for me to study now, and then I will go and study, so in a way this self controlled me in that moment to go to study.
If I move my arm up and down? Well funny it is, as I read it I tried to move my arm up and down, I thought about the source behind it. Is it me? Is it just happening without any control?Is it your question? Had you have not asked it, I would have not done it. It is your question interacting with my mind, my belief system. It's like a feedback mechanism. First I moved my arm up, then there is this self coming trying to take control, trying to prove that it can move the arm according to its will, then self gets lost again. Well it's all very confusing to be honest.

[itstopshere]

Where there is a self? In the brain probably.

That's theory. We are looking, remember? ;-)

There are moments in between the train of thoughts when there is a feeling of the self. When I am conscious, in the present moment, looking at things, there is deep feeling that I am the observer looking outside and then the train took over again.

I suggest you try this again, without any thinking. Are you imposing a "feeling of self", or is there really a "feeling of self"?

Nature of self?
No, I asked for characteristics of self. If the self exists, how does it look, taste, smell, feel, or sound?

The self wants to take control. It wants the betterment of itself. It wants itself to grow. It wants it to be the best. I have day dreams about me doing something heroic. If I have to study for an exam and I am having fun with friends and enjoying my time , lost in talking and listening, then there will come a self saying that I have to study. It's like a commanding force saying that I have done enough fun and it's time for me to study now, and then I will go and study, so in a way this self controlled me in that moment to go to study.

We'll get back to this later.

If I move my arm up and down? Well funny it is, as I read it I tried to move my arm up and down, I thought about the source behind it.

"I" moved my arm, "I" thought about the source.
What is this "I" you keep talking about? (answer from your experience, not from thought)

Is it me? Is it just happening without any control?Is it your question? Had you have not asked it, I would have not done it.

But it might also not have happened even though I asked it.

...then there is this self coming trying to take control...

Where is this self?
And how does it take control?

Yes, it's quite confusing. I understand that. Just keep looking. It's really right in front of the nose (not your nose, though).

I will keep thinking into this stuff.

Please don't keep thinking into this stuff. Then it will take you until the end of time. That's the ego trying to overcome the ego, so to speak. I.e. an illusion trying to get rid of itself, while it has never existed.

I might start taking life less seriously. Career, family and social life may become less importance. I may become a detached person. I may even lose the will to survive and fight for life, you know, a depressed kind of state.

All kinds of things may or may not happen. It is best to just let it come as it may.

[ach07]

Wow! Great insights. I am done for today. I am off to sleep. Will reply tomorrow. Good Night!

[itstopshere]

Hey there Achal. Did any more looking happen? Any updates?

[itstopshere]

Dear Achal,

I'm getting the feeling you aren't at the right place for this investigation yet.
What do you think?
I don't want us to waste our time on something that isn't working. Please consider whether you feel you are really ready and willing to dedicate time to investigate (not think). We need at least daily contact.

[ach07]

Hi,

I was out of town for two days and didn't have an internet connection.
From today on I will be available daily.

[ach07]

I was travelling through bus today. I tried to look in. I was present. I was looking out of the window, enjoying the view. I was just looking out of the window. Then after some time I find myself in the middle of thoughts, thinking about my college life, thinking about the mistakes I made in my life. How did I get there? I was just watching the view. Again I started enjoying the view, but the same thing happened. It happened 5-6 times. It's like I have no control. Then I tried something I have read somewhere, maybe a zen teaching. I started looking what will be my next thought. It was like thoughts were trying to pop up but were not able to do so because of my reflection on them. It worked for some time.
Anyway I was lost again, thinking about my past life. I was so absorbed in it that I was very much unaware of the rest of my journey.