Moving from conceptual knowledge to direct seeing

[moondog]

Hi Stephen,,

Thank you for your excellent, detailed answers.

You just need also to let me have the following, requested in my previous post 'When answering question 5, please give specific and very recent examples from direct experience.' There only need to be two or three and nothing special, detailed or copious, just any ordinary everyday occurrences from what's happening to you now or very recently. Once you let me have them, I'll ask the guides have a look.

Pete x

[stephen.s]

Hi Pete,
No problem, and sorry for the oversite.

I am just going to do this off the top of my head; no system to it.

In respect of control and decision-making, you had given the task of raising an arm.
I had just before that given an example of a similar experiment I had picked up whilst reading the philosopher John Searle. It is essentially the same except you use the index finger. I have done this test a few times now since I first read about it years ago. I raise my finger anytime after "now". Having done it, I am unable to determine what or who makes the decision to raise the finger, I am unable to figure out why at precisely this moment, and (this next is more about doing rather than decision making) I have no idea how I moved the finger.

About doing I can say I have no idea how my body performs its actions. I am typing this and I have no idea how this happens. There is no access, in DE, to the actual workings of the body! It just happens. It goes without saying then that there is no separate "I" doing all this: I am not in control.

Another one, again with an overlap between decision making and doing. I drove to work this morning. At the red light, I wait, and then as it turns green, my body goes through the actions (put it in gear, release the clutch, push in the throttle, etc.): there is no I controlling any of this! It just happens. In fact (I told you about this in a previous post), when I was a biker and had to get away quick when the light changed, to get away from the queue of cars I had weaved to the front of, I realised that switching thought off from the driving process (i.e. disconnecting from thought) was beneficial to the smoothness of the operation.

I can't really think of any other examples of the last few days.

Let me finish with an interesting little anecdote. About a week ago I met a couple of old colleagues in a Chinese restaurant. I recently changed jobs and this was the first time I met with them since leaving my job. One of them ordered a cocktail. In/on it was a fortune cookie. My colleague insisted that as it was my dinner (a belated leaving do), I should have the fortune cookie. After some persuasion, I took it.
This is what the message inside said: "Look! Fortune is all around you."

Actually, I wont leave it at that. Just remembered something else.
I have found a way to use thought (or rather, thoughts appearing one after the other) as a way to "prove" to myself that there is no "I".
Example: I walk and take in the environment. Thought is going on, corrupting the pureness of the seeing of the trees etc. (like interference on the radio: you still here the music but there is this crackle going on at the same time). I then observe more closely: it is clear that thoughts come and go at their own will, it is also clear that thoughts don't/can't observe or see the environment. So then, I observe that there is despite thoughts going on still the seeing of the environment going on as well. Thoughts are not "me", but other than thoughts there is nothing else - except the observing of the thoughts as well as the environment. So this for me is DE of seeing going on without any centre to the seeing (without an "I").
I don't think I've explained it well.
I'll try again , with the radio as analogy.
The radio is my body with its senses. The radio receives music (me watching the environment) and has some interference (thoughts). Where is the "I" in the radio? The music is not the I, nor is the interference: there is just the receiving (seeing/observing) of both interference and music.

Well, it'll have to do...haha!

[moondog]

Hi Stephen,

Thanks for all your answers.

I'll now ask the guides to have a look at this thread and I'll let you know as soon as I can whether they have any queries to clarify anything, as they often do. It's a good idea to check from time to time, to keep the flow going if necessary. It can take a day or two or longer, or it can be quicker. No worries.

After that, I'll arrange for you to get access to various groups on Facebook and the LU site, if that's what you'd like to do. Looking forward to your PM with your FB details if you do.

Pete x

[moondog]

Hi Stephen,

I'm pleased to be able to tell you that the guides have no queries and are satisfied that you have seen through the illusion of a separate self.

I'll now get in touch with LU admin to get you 'turned blue' and they will be contact you with invitations to the various groups etc. The groups are friendly, helpful and supportive, for those, like you, fresh 'through the Gate', and for later on. PM me with your Facebook details if you wish to join those groups.

You can, of course, always contact me about anything whenever you want.

I've really enjoyed guiding you and pointing you where to look (and where not to look). As I've already said, it's been an absolute pleasure.

Go well Stephen.

Love,

Pete

[stephen.s]

Pete, many thanks for all your help.
I am about to send you a PM

[moondog]

No worries Stephen.

Looking forward to your PM

P x