Confused with emotion and D.E.

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JonathanR
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Re: Confused with emotion and D.E.

Postby JonathanR » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:13 pm

Julia,
Jon.. i keep losing the awareness... im sucked back into this busy world... especially in presence of others.. this awareness totally goes away...
Is there a 'self' that could 'loose awareness'? Was/is there a 'self' thet can prevent a thought appearing, including the thought 'I'?.

There is an impression of 'a person', 'me' that gets 'sucked back into a busy world'.

Did I ever suggest that 'you' had to maintain 'awareness'? Is 'awareness something that 'you' could 'do' or does it simply appear to happen when it does?

When it seems that awareness returns, is there one that makes this happen? Is there on that can prevent the idea that it has been 'lost'?

Jon

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JonathanR
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Re: Confused with emotion and D.E.

Postby JonathanR » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:13 am

Hi Julia,

a couple of days ago you said this..
So earlier, i was kind of lost or more like in a disbelief state.. how nothing ever in my life, i had control over it.. it's just all unfolding of it. totally. no choice or decision.. and this whole time.. trying to control a certain outcome had me split.. it was another unseen duality now in my awareness..
It is great that all this is noticed now.

This is worth looking at:

You say 'it was another unseen duality now in my awareness'. Could we perhaps phrase that slightly differently? Could we instead say 'it was another unseen duality, now seen'? Does that seem fair? Is it clear why I'm suggesting this?

Jon

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jkim
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Re: Confused with emotion and D.E.

Postby jkim » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:18 am

Hi Jon..
I think so..
There was an excitement of me seeing this duality.. within an illusion.. I guess..
And I was holding onto that same 'impact' of seeing.. The 'I' seeing this and feeling excited about it.. But in the previous post, you guided that.. there is no self that 'could lose awareness' or be aware..

Its so easy how I could be boxed right into this I character..

I was trying to hold that 'I that sees'.. in a certain version..

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jkim
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Re: Confused with emotion and D.E.

Postby jkim » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:20 am

I realize that I can hold nothing as a reference... It is so easy to miss 'now'. what is is noticing right now..

everything could be a story...

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jkim
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Re: Confused with emotion and D.E.

Postby jkim » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:33 am

There is an impression of 'a person', 'me' that gets 'sucked back into a busy world'.

Did I ever suggest that 'you' had to maintain 'awareness'? Is 'awareness something that 'you' could 'do' or does it simply appear to happen when it does?

When it seems that awareness returns, is there one that makes this happen? Is there on that can prevent the idea that it has been 'lost'?
I can't control what is in my awareness..

awareness will see 'I had lost awareness' and that will still be accepted, and awareness will again see 'I am back and full of awareness' and that will be in awareness again... Any thought will pop up, and there is no i in it..

This is making me feel.. idk.. like there is no anchoring..
I think i'm trying to have this 'enlightenment' as my anchor..
Can I even function without a me? like some lost piece of wood drifting in the sea is what it sounds like..
If I let go, what is left of me?

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JonathanR
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Re: Confused with emotion and D.E.

Postby JonathanR » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:16 pm

Hi Julia,
Its so easy how I could be boxed right into this I character..
Only if there is a 'you' that could be 'boxed in'. Is there one?
I was trying to hold that 'I that sees'.. in a certain version..
Yes, though...who or what 'tries to hold'?
I realize that I can hold nothing as a reference... It is so easy to miss 'now'. what is is noticing right now..

everything could be a story...
Perfect.
This is making me feel.. idk.. like there is no anchoring..
I think i'm trying to have this 'enlightenment' as my anchor..
Wow. That is good to notice.
Can I even function without a me? like some lost piece of wood drifting in the sea is what it sounds like..
If I let go, what is left of me?
It is quite common to feel jittery or even frightened at this juncture. But look at it like this...there has been 'functioning without a me' going on for a long...long time, hasn't there? The only difference now is that it is noticed.

There was a great guy named Alan Watts who summarised it by saying it's like falling and falling. It could be really terrifying, except for the fact that there is not going to be any impact becasue there is no bottom.


Love

Jon.

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jkim
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Re: Confused with emotion and D.E.

Postby jkim » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:55 am

Only if there is a 'you' that could be 'boxed in'. Is there one?

who or what 'tries to hold'?
Jon.. How could I have not seen this.. or been missing it.. idk if the previous posts were answered under the 'enlightened i' to say that there is no me..

But it took me few glances back reading this query of yours to realize... that this 'i' entity was firmly present..

right now.. there is an 'i' that strongly wants acceptance.. and is ready to throw a fit or tantrum when this 'i' is not accepted.. but like you always question.. "is there an 'i' to be accepted?"

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JonathanR
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Re: Confused with emotion and D.E.

Postby JonathanR » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:47 am

This 'seeing' business. It doesn't just happen once. Thought is always re-creating an impression of 'I', isn't it? So, noticing the most recent dream of 'I' is also the seeing through of the illusion again. :-)
right now.. there is an 'i' that strongly wants acceptance.. and is ready to throw a fit or tantrum when this 'i' is not accepted.. but like you always question.. "is there an 'i' to be accepted?"
Again, good to notice this going on.

Seeing through the illusory 'self' happens and then there is room for futher looking, as so many assumptions and patterns of behaviour start to be seen.

Do you feel that the illusion of 'self' has been 'seen'? Are there any doubts about what has been seen?

Jon.

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jkim
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Re: Confused with emotion and D.E.

Postby jkim » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:04 am

Thought is always re-creating an impression of 'I', isn't it? So, noticing the most recent dream of 'I' is also the seeing through of the illusion again. :-)
yes.. yes!!! repeatedly..
Do you feel that the illusion of 'self' has been 'seen'? Are there any doubts about what has been seen?
Yes.. it is seen.. and there is no doubt..

applying the fruit exercise helped alot Jon..

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JonathanR
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Re: Confused with emotion and D.E.

Postby JonathanR » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:36 pm

Hi Julia,
Yes.. it is seen.. and there is no doubt..

applying the fruit exercise helped a lot Jon..
That's great. So now I'd like to ask you a few questions that we always ask at this stage? There are six of these and I'll split these into two lots of three. Once you have answered we can take a look at what you have said.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2)Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3)How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.


Jon.

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jkim
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Re: Confused with emotion and D.E.

Postby jkim » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:18 pm

1. There never was a self.. all is just in the thought content.

2. illusion of separate self is and starts when there is an indirect seeing.. There is a 'me' filter creating an illusion that a 'me' is existent. it is easily noticed when feelings grip, it is due to an indirect seeing of self when there is a reference.. thinking and believing that i operate from this certain POV.

3. Last few days, being able to see through this false 'me' was confusing and yet freeing, in a sense that there are emotions to be acknowledged but without an anchoring point.. But seems like it is mostly present because of the illusion..

Julia

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JonathanR
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Re: Confused with emotion and D.E.

Postby JonathanR » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:52 pm

Thanks Julia,

Ok, here are the rest of the quetions:

4)What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5)Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

Jon

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JonathanR
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Re: Confused with emotion and D.E.

Postby JonathanR » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:37 am

Hi Julia,

How is it going?

Jon

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jkim
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Re: Confused with emotion and D.E.

Postby jkim » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:15 pm

Hi Jon!

strange, i didn't get any notification for the past two entries from you.. I got curious and decided to check in..
4)What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5)Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?
4.It felt like falling backwards over and over again, to see that there still is a self!! like.. inception movie, but this is a self.. and then saw the self that had been 'struggling' to 'be enlightened', and then a self of having a thought that a self is struggling, and then this line came to me, "This is a thought too!" but everything is always a thought, and this is yet another thought.. and then, some kind of letting go happens.. and a statement that said, "nothing has to be changed", "let trying to control be", "let wanting control be", and momentarily, this ego structure becomes as is.. nothing has to be done..

5.like, there is an obsession of wanting to be loved.. so this ego will 'try' or 'control' a me or events to make sure a me is loved. and then noticing happens "let the thought of 'trying' be.."
Or.. whenever the self wants to change somebody, it is to avoid a certain feeling, which is feeling of not being loved. but.. I consciously 'let them be', and see through this reflected 'me' that has been so hard to be seen..
Or even when an I is rushing in the traffic, a 'me' is reflected as an idea existing within this time and space structure of mind.. something like that..
Or everytime people stare at me, there is this idea of body self intact in mind.. its crazy..

6. But this seeing keeps happening, like.. sometimes annoying.. and then, that is also a thought... hahaha but something i can't control. it just flows the way it is, and something keeps unfolding.. annoyances, thoughts of 'losing' awareness, failing, succeeding, going with the flow, resisting - is all moment to moment thoughts, even this moment. idk.. hard to describe.. but it also kind of feels like, trusting in each unfolding movement, but there is no need to trust, because its all just a dream.
But I still feel trapped.. but this is still a thought! there still seems to be a struggle, of not letting go, which is still a thought..
I kind of dont know whats the next step, because that is the step.. that exact thought is what will continue over to the next step. but there never was a step. like. ok.. 'I' am here typing.. and this is the exact thing 'i' will be doing this moment..' and then the next 'now' becomes a now.. its always a now.. now is all there is..
and in the next now, an 'i' will think that "'I'm still lost" or something like that.. and that becomes a now..

But to feel the sensation, the body is still tight.. its holding onto something, its not relaxed... but what body.. a body held in this illusion.

I honestly want to go on and on with this 'cycle' that plays in my head, but I stop here.. And this statement came from Julia.. hahaha

Julia

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jkim
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Re: Confused with emotion and D.E.

Postby jkim » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:20 pm

like..
Julia is angry.. as it is..
Julia is lost, let it be..
Julia is not letting go, ok..
Julia found a job, ok cool.
Julia might be fired, uh oh.. ok..


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