Searching for answers - Shirley777

[JonathanR]

Hi Shirley,

There is no me at all experiencing the sensations I just experience. It's a whole new world now.
There is a massive expectation to fail and be fat but there is no self doing this it is in my mind an illusion that I attach to. I have no self that over eats or that can prevent this. knowing this doesn't cure the problem but it helps me to understand what is happening my thoughts and expectations that I cling to and make real.
Thank you so much

You are very welcome indeed. How lovely!.
You are right about expectations and there can be times when thoughts about 'my problems' can seem to take over, only now, isn't there a great difference? Some of the same thoughts can play out and even feelings that go with these thoughts but do they 'belong' to anyone? (Did they ever?).

it helps me to understand what is happening my thoughts and expectations that I cling to and make real.

Ok. It certainly helps to notice the thoughts but ... is there a real 'I' that 'clings' to' thoughts and expectations?

Look right now. Is there a 'self here right now?

Was there ever a 'self'?

Is there one that can 'understand'?

Is there a 'Shirley' that 'makes thoughts and expectations real'?

So what is going on? Can you tell me how it seems that 'someone clings' to thought and expectations' and how this is seen through? Does an 'I' 'see through this illusion?


Love,

Jon

[Shirley777]

Yes your right I say make real but this is an illusion. Nothing is real. There is no real I at all. It's all very deep and hard to change overnight. No self here right now just the seer. No self ever existed ever I no this and never made anything real I thought I did it's all thoughts. There is no one that can understand as there is nothing to understand and there is no one. There is no Shirley at all this is a label given to the human form the seer sees through. There is no I that sees through the illusion there is the seer watching but I can't find anything that sees through it, because it doesn't exist and there is no I or me
Love
Shirley

[Shirley777]

In reference to the above where I say hard to change overnight again I am implying there is a self without realising, there is nothing to change overnight it is all an illusion and I'm slowing letting go of this but yet there is no I. So I am really seeing the truth and the rest is melting away.

[JonathanR]

When you say:

there is the seer watching but I can't find anything that sees through it,

Do you think we might change the wording of this? What if, instead of saying there is 'the seer watching' we simply say ' there is seeing'?

Do you notice how language, like thoughts, can make it seem that there is a 'self', a 'seer that watches'? When there never is? And yet, even though no 'seer' can be found in experience, the 'seeing' still happens?

At this point you are clearly telling me that the illusion of 'self' is seen through. So I'd like to ask you some final questions, please? There are six of these and I'll present three at a time. Once you have answered them we can take a look at what you have written.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2)Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3)How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.


Love,

Jon

[Shirley777]

Yes exactly your right the seeing wow even more mind blowing. Language does play its part in making it seem there is a self. I'm really understanding you now.
1) there is no seperTe self me or I anywhere this has never existed in any shape or form. It has all been an illusion and isn't there.
2)I cannot begin to explain what the illusion or separate self is when it starts or when it ends as it does not exist. From my own experience I was writing about illusions I was experiencing and trying to make them real. The I in this sentence is an illusion too there is no I. There is only seeing that is happening. I cannot write a long winded explanation as it is simple and the truth there is only seeing.
3) I still have thoughts, emotions and sensations, there is now seeing this happen. It is more peaceful when there is seeing. Before I started this dialogue I was I a me something that wasn't real. I am nothing now and free.
Thank you
Love
Shirley

[Shirley777]

Again the word I does not feel right anymore the last sentence should say there is seeing and freedom

[JonathanR]

Hi Shirley,

I still have thoughts, emotions and sensations, there is now seeing this happen. It is more peaceful when there is seeing. Before I started this dialogue I was I a me something that wasn't real. I am nothing now and free.
Thank you

I know you also posted saying that using 'I' feels uncomfortable. Maybe there is a better way of answering question 3 (above)? I'll ask a few questions and then, you have another go at answering?

Before I started this dialogue I was I a me something that wasn't real. I am nothing now and free.

[/quote]

The experience may be spot-on but the way you have worded this sounds a little confusing. If I take what you have written literally you seem to be saying that 'you' are 'nothing'? By saying 'I am this or that' it already seems that there is a 'self'. Is there another way of expressing these ideas without saying 'I am',,,(anything)? Do you see why this matters?


Love,

Jon

[Shirley777]

Yes I understand and see why it matters definitely.
3) there is seeing, there are thoughts emotions and sensations, all illusions that are no longer clung to. There is no me or I or self, there is seeing, the truth.
Love
Shirley

[Shirley777]

There is nothing but peace and tranquility.

[JonathanR]

3) there is seeing, there are thoughts emotions and sensations, all illusions that are no longer clung to. There is no me or I or self, there is seeing, the truth.

Ok Thank you Shirley. Here are the last three questions. See how you get on.

4)What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5)Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?


Love

Jon.

[Shirley777]

4) there was already seeing this was just hidden behind an illusion that was never there.
5)the answers are no there is no deciding choosing or control over events. There is no making things happen. There are no examples of this as it is an illusion.
6) it would be a mistake to pretend that life is simple free from the illusion of self, but with awareness and seeing there is peace.

thank you for your time and guidance it has been greatly appreciated

[Shirley777]

Love from
Shirley

[JonathanR]

Hi Shirley,

Thank you for your answers to 4, 5 and 6.

4) there was already seeing this was just hidden behind an illusion that was never there.

I understand what you are saying, But did you notice a particular moment, something I said or perhaps a moment of recognition? For example, for me it was when the idea that 'thoughts can't be prevented from appearing' was suggested, but for some people the realization is quite gradual.

5)the answers are no there is no deciding choosing or control over events. There is no making things happen. There are no examples of this as it is an illusion.

Again, I completely understand why you say this. But maybe there is an example of something you used to feel 'you' 'chose' to do or 'decided' about that now is seen differently?

it would be a mistake to pretend that life is simple free from the illusion of self, but with awareness and seeing there is peace.

Yes. I'm glad you mention this becasue in one way nothing is different. If the body falls over in the street there is pain and it is felt, isn't it? Sadness and anger do not just disappear, to be replaced by heaven. But now there is noticing that these are not happening to 'a person', 'me'. Is that the sort of thing you mean?

thank you for your time and guidance it has been greatly appreciated

I'm delighted to be able to help :-) But don't go away quite yet. We are not quite finished.

Love,

Jon

[Shirley777]

I may not get chance ti reply im at tge hospital wuth my grandad. Buyt im gladtheres more. I will respond when i can
shirlet

[Shirley777]

I may not get chance ti reply im at tge hospital wuth my grandad. Buyt im gladtheres more. I will respond when i can
shirlet