Good Morning, Sarah! Great to hear back from you, as always :)
No – just asking if that which notices is ever not there? Not accessible? Emotion is experienced isn’t it?
Okay, yes, I will concede that that which notices is never not there. And yes, it is always accessible, but not always easily (e.g. when intense emotion is in play). Not sure where you going with your question about whether emotion is experienced, though. Yes, it is experienced, and as mentioned earlier in this paragraph, it seems to be the most significant obstacle to accessing the freedom pure awareness offers.
Without wishing to upset you here – is it seen that all of this is story?
Not upsetting me at all, Sarah, but thank you for your concern and checking with me on it. I'm just fascinated as ever, and trying to follow you. Yes, its seen that (looked at from one perspective) its a story. But even assuming it has no more (or perhaps less) meaning than a fairy-tale, the story is real enough to me to where its a distinction without a difference.
Well – what wants? Outside of thought is there wanting or desire? If not – then its in thought only – thought wanting something other than what is – now look.
Yes, Sarah, I agree with you that there is no wanting or desire outside of thought. In fact, I think I've been pretty clear that I don't think that anything exists outside of thought. The problem is that thought is there all the time, isn't it? Or if its not, it doesn't matter anyway, correct? So to say its "only thought," is like saying, its "only money," when its obvious you need money to survive. Or, "Its just air," when you need air to breath. You see, in my direct experience, thought is integral to experience, so to dismiss it as "only thought," doesn't do much to convince me its as trivial as you suggest, in the grand scheme of things. Sure, whenever I die, it presumably won't be there anymore. But until then, its basically what you're dealing with, in this dimension at least, no?
But is it yours? Do you own it?
Ultimately, I don't see that it makes any difference whether its "mine" or just floating around out there as a disembodied "story." Its still real enough to me to where I have to deal with it (whether I believe in it or not).
Well if the problem could be solved IN thought – you would have done it by now wouldn’t you? Have you found what you were looking for? No – so your looking in the wrong place. Has all this thinking solved anything? Or just created more suffering or confusion?
Great point, Sarah! Again, I agree with you in essence here, but for all practical purposes, admitting that thinking hasn't solved any of my suffering doesn't give me anywhere else to go with it (that I've found so far). You're statement here reminds me of a spiritual guide I had when I was in my 20's who said, "Maybe the answer, Jim, is that there is no answer." Sounds wonderful, of course, but it still didn't do anything to point me in a direction that would bring me any solutions. Hence, the search continued. So with all due respect, Sarah, I'm still wondering, what's the difference here?
Is the content of thought real? Not asking if thought is experienced – just the content.
As I said before, my perception is that yes, the content of thought is real when looked at from one perspective (materialism), and not real when looked at from another (Advaita).
For instance your past – what is actually being experienced there – the past or a thought?
A thought, but one so vivid and intense so as not to possess any qualitative difference to my experience, whether I label it as real or imaginary.
The answer is found in what is actually experienced NOT what thought says is experienced. That takes looking again and again and again! Onion peeling Jim! One layer at a time!
Okay, Sarah, I'm taking your word that this is true. Hopefully, I've at least peeled off the first layer by now? I know its off the subject a bit, but how do you measure such a thing anyway, I'm wondering?
Now go look and SEE this!
Believe me, I'm trying as hard as I can, Sarah! I'll keep trying too, but so far, something hasn't clicked to make that understand real in my present experience. The biggest problem I see is that the thoughts are just so powerful, you can never stay in pure awareness for long enough for it to become habitual. This is what gives me the sense that thoughts are more real than, say Advaita people, give them credit for. I'll keep challenging that notion with all I have, however, as I really despise the alternative...LOL
That’s because you are waiting for thoughts to be convinced. And that isn’t going to happen! And yes – SEE what needs to be convinced here!
Okay, thanks for that. I will sit with that today and see if I can see it.
Have a look and see how much of this happens.
Okay, yes, I'll keep looking for it.
Is that because you want something different from this answer?
Thought seems to want something different. I (separate from thought) is just hoping to realize that my being isn't just thought, at the end of the day!
Motivation may or may not happen – the rest is story – if you have had enough that’s perfectly OK Jim. You are free to leave anytime you like. If you need time to digest – that’s fine too. Im here for as long as you wish to speak with me.
Thanks again for checking in with me here, Sarah, but I'm determined to see this through to the end, wherever it goes (or until you get tired of me, whichever comes first...LOL). I'm really not sure what there is to digest anyway, so might as well keep going with it, as long as you're game. So I suppose that means the motivation is present, for whatever its worth.... I promise to keep you posted on this aspect of it, though, as we go.
Future thought sending you out of what is?
Or is what you're saying here merely another thought? Its all infinite regression!
Is nihilism experienced all the time? Is it permanent? Or is this a guess based on thoughts?
No, I hardly ever think about nihilism except in the context of this kind of inquiry. Its just that, despite my best efforts to find another analogy for what I'm hearing here, the word "nihilism" best approximates it. I don't feel any negative connotations with that word, by the way. Do you? I actually think its not a bad way to consider the ultimate reality of things. The only problem is that the embrace of that idea doesn't give one much more freedom than attributing religious meaning to life. I wish you could help me see it differently, if indeed this isn't what your pointing to.
And if it is experienced – are you ‘being’ with it – or resisting it?
Please allow me to answer your question with another question. If "what is noticing" is really what we're looking for here, and thoughts are irrelevant and powerless, then why are all these efforts needed to see through thought?
Thanks for doing your best to help me to see what you're pointing at. Despite nihilism, your caring means a lot to me! I just hope that's coming through my words.
Hugs,
Jim xxx
