REQUEST FOR A GUIDE

[parasa]

Hi Dridhamati,

Thanks for this - very helpful, especially your explanation on the sixth sense.

So a 'self' can't be found in experience. Yet all these years (and probably still now, at least sometimes) there was and is a strong sense of this 'self', of an 'I' doing 'things', 'in charge'. When this sense of 'self' is felt, look into experience, and:
Q. what does experience reveal about the nature of this non-locatable 'self', this 'I'?

The answer is nothing. Are there any exercises that you could recommend that help strengthen direct experience and help let go any residual sense of self?

but what happens when the sign posts are believed to 'hold the truth'? Delusion

P

[dridhamati]

Hi P,

Thanks for this - very helpful, especially your explanation on the sixth sense.

Happy it helped. :-)

Q. what does experience reveal about the nature of this non-locatable 'self', this 'I'?
The answer is nothing.

And if nothing in experience can point to this ‘self’, or can reveal anything about this ‘self’, then can it be said that there exists a ‘self’, an ‘I’?

Are there any exercises that you could recommend that help strengthen direct experience...

A vacation can be an ideal time to practice gently: less rush and less external constraints, more free time, more opportunities perhaps.
Having slowed the pace, it will be easier to simply observe experience, all experience, via all 6 senses. See how sensations occurs, and watch mind hijack the process in order to ‘try and make sense of it all.’
Watch what happens when a sensation labelled as ‘pleasant’ occurs; watch the activity in mind, watch the craving for ‘more’ emerge. But who/what wants more?
And similarly with ‘unpleasant’ sensations. Watch the craving for ‘less’ (or none) emerge. But who/what wants less/none?

...and help let go any residual sense of self?

Could you please elaborate here? What is meant by ‘residual sense of self’?

but what happens when the sign posts are believed to 'hold the truth'? Delusion

Yes, sadly, delusion.

All the best,
Dridhamati

[parasa]

Hi Dridhamati,

Again, thanks for this, especially the holiday/life practice.

Excuse the the poor wording re the 'residual sense of self' I really meant the tendency of the mind to hijack the sensory experience and concoct stories. The suggested practice will help in this respect.

It feels like we have reached some sort of conclusion which would be good as I leave on Monday. Do you concur? Obviously I could continue for a couple of days if that is critical.

P

[dridhamati]

Hi P,

Again, thanks for this, especially the holiday/life practice.

You're welcome.
And good on you for seeing it as a 'life practice'.

Being interested in Buddhism, these texts from the Pali Canon might be of interest:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html (the 'teaching' really starts at the paragraph "Then Bahiya, you should train yourself thus...")
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html (to be read in conjunction with the following)
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Excuse the the poor wording re the 'residual sense of self' I really meant the tendency of the mind to hijack the sensory experience and concoct stories. The suggested practice will help in this respect.

I see what you mean, thanks for clarifying.

It feels like we have reached some sort of conclusion which would be good as I leave on Monday. Do you concur? Obviously I could continue for a couple of days if that is critical.

Yes we have reached a point in the dialogue where a series of 6 questions would be presented. The purpose being to then ask other guides to read the answers and offer suggestions and further questions in case something had been missed in our dialogue.
What I propose is to give you the questions, to take with you on vacation. The questions can be used as guides into further investigation.
When you return, maybe you will have more questions, and/or maybe you will want to offer your answers.
So here goes:
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
6) Anything to add?

Please answer from direct experience.

Enjoy your time in la belle France! :-)

All the best
Dridhamati

[parasa]

Hi Dridhamati,

Many thanks for this. It's good timing for me. I'll reflect on this 'en vacances' and report back on my return.

Pat

[dridhamati]

Salut P,

Bonne's vacances et bonnes réflections.

Bien cordialement.
Dridhamati

[parasa]

Hi Dridhamati,

I'm back from a very pleasant sojourn (albeit in the opposite side of the country from you).

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No and No

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

Believing your thoughts are reality and there is a separate entity in control of the body and mind. It all starts from conditioning from an early age as exemplified by language, me, myself yourself etc.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

A bit scary. Realising something you've taken for granted is just delusion. Not just anything but your whole concept of who you are.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The realisation of the lack of control over your thoughts and body.

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

No and No.

6) Anything to add?

Only to express my gratitude for your guidance.

P

[dridhamati]

Hi P,

Welcome back. Happy to read the holiday went well.
And thank you for the answers to the questions.

Could you please elaborate a bit more on the answer to Q5 below? A couple of examples would help.

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

No and No.

Also, about the answer to Q3 below:

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

A bit scary. Realising something you've taken for granted is just delusion. Not just anything but your whole concept of who you are.

Does this 'fear' need to be looked into here in this dialogue?
Who/what is feeling scared? (For example)

Only to express my gratitude for your guidance.

Thank you. And it is a pleasure.

All the best,
Dridhamati

[parasa]

Hi Dridhamati,


Could you please elaborate a bit more on the answer to Q5 below? A couple of examples would help.

Let me reflect on this.

Does this 'fear' need to be looked into here in this dialogue?
Who/what is feeling scared?

No. Not much sense in being scary of losing something that never existed!

P

[dridhamati]

Hi P,

Let me reflect on this.

No urgency.

No. Not much sense in being scary of losing something that never existed!

Quite. :-)

All the best
Dridhamati

[parasa]

Hi Dridhamati,

Re Q5, in terms of making things happen we have covered that in the dialogue (arm movement was the example). As for intentions choices and decisions I have thoughts about these but there is no strong relationship with outcomes even more so in the case of control.

P

[dridhamati]

Hi P,

As for intentions choices and decisions I have thoughts about these but there is no strong relationship with outcomes even more so in the case of control.

Could you please elaborate on the 'no strong relationship' bit?

All the best
Dridhamati

[parasa]

Hi Dridhamati

Only to say I can have thoughts about choices etc but I can't control the outcomes. Sometimes the outcome is as intended sometimes it isn't.

Perhaps the more interesting aspect is that these are all just thoughts. If you can't control your thoughts you can't control choices etc.

P

[dridhamati]

Hi P,

Perhaps the more interesting aspect is that these are all just thoughts. If you can't control your thoughts you can't control choices etc.

Yes, all thoughts.
Thoughts that somehow are believed to have a real and separate existence, and form a 'self', an 'I', a 'me'.
Thoughts that are as insubstantial and transient as any other sensations experienced via any of the 5 physical senses.
And as you rightly point out, thoughts that cannot be controlled, for who/what is there to control them anyway?

These are extracts from your first two posts on page 1.

I've practiced meditation for about 10 years and had an interest in Buddhism for about 5 years. I find the concept of no separate self very appealing but it isn't something I really feel. I would like to change that.

When I started meditating I thought of it as a form of self-development. Over time I have realised that it’s the complete opposite - ‘non- self’ development. As I said previously the concept of self is a fascinating one. Much as I understand the arguments about the self being a delusion that is not the way it actually feels which is something very real. Losing the attachment to self seems to the Holy Grail for Buddhists and anything that helps to facilitate the process is very appealing.
At worst I expect an interesting, thought provoking and challenging process which, at least furthers an intellectual understanding of the delusion of self.
At best this would translate into a fundamental belief which became a liberating (hard to avoid the word) event enabling me to be more open, connected with the world and a more compassionate, happier person. It would also help me to come to terms with adversity, especially death as with no ‘self’ there can be no death.

Is there anything here that still needs to be addressed now?
Also, what do statements like “concept of no separate self”, “‘non- self’ development” or “fundamental belief” elicit now?

All the best
Dridhamati

[parasa]

Hi Dridhamati,

Is there anything here that still needs to be addressed now?

No, I think we have covered everything.

Also, what do statements like “concept of no separate self”, “‘non- self’ development” or “fundamental belief” elicit now?

Errr, a sense of embarrassment.... This seems like a long time ago!

P