Here is a call for innercall :)

[Ilona]

Thank you for message. Please introduse yourself here and tell a bit of your story.

Looking forward to our conversation.
Much love.

[Innercall]

Hi Ilona,

Thanks for guiding me.

My name is Maxime and I am a 32 years old man. I have started doing meditation about 5 years ago in an attemtp to fill an emptiness that I was feeling for a long time. For a long time I longed for more in my life and meditation quickly convinced me that there was more to life than what I used to think. I didn't know what I was looking for, neither am-I now but one thing that increased was the longing for that thing, this urgency to merge with something more, this need that makes you cry while looking at the stars in the sky.

I experienced a kundalini awakening that changed the way I see life, and the perception of the energies inside my body. It was folowed by a period of severe depression that settled down over time. I had a couple of moments where I felt connected, where I could see everyhting happening to this consciousness without being involved but these didn't stay long. Over time I became very sensitive to any spiritual practice. Just a little of meditation or too much of spiritual reading made me feel depressed. In fact, everything increasing inner silence increases the energy and emotions felt inside and it is like the energy released from the energetic-emotional knots dissolving from the silence get stuck inside my body. Because of that, I decreased my practices of meditation to nearly zero since a couple of months. I came to realise that a part of me fears the dissolving of the self and that all this discomfort and resistance I feel when meditating might be caused by this fear.

I don't want any more to be divided between the desire to know the truth and the fear of finding out. I am willing to face that fear, to experience the unknown and live with the consequence.

Looking forward to our conversation too.

[Ilona]

Brilliant. Thank you for intro.
Before we can take a next step I invite you to examine your expectations as thoroughly as you can, so we can leave them here till later.

Make a list of what you expect seeing the truth is gonna be like, what it is not gonna be like and what you do not want it to be.

Get it all put of the system and put it on the screen.
:)

Sending love.

[Innercall]

My expectations…

What I expect seeing the truth will be like or would like it to be:
-A relief
-The end of my suffering
-The reconciliation of the opposites in me
-The end of complexity, the beginning of simplicity
-Solving all my problems… eh eh
-The answer to my undefined longing.
-Fun, hilarious
-Bring energetic and emotional stability
-A part of me wants to be special or different because of it
-A moment of deep understanding clearly seen… like an Oh my god this is it!!!
-The end of thoughts that always haunt me
-Inner peace

What it is not gonna be like:
-Painful
-Sad
-An extreme experience with fireworks omniscience and omnipotence
Strange, I’ve got difficulties figuring out how it is not going to be…

What I don’t want it to be:
-Something temporary that will leave me
-The loss of will to continue on a spiritual quest. I am quite attached to this idea of having to DO something to see the truth about me and I perceive fear about having to stop all this if I finally find the anwser.
-Disappointing
-A joke, not existing
-Being of no relevance to my experience of life.
-The loss of something precious and useful
-The loss of will to act in life

I think this is it...at least for now

[Ilona]

That is a nice list!
Couple points:

The shift is very subtle. You may not even notice when it occurs, so if you expect a big aha moment,it may never happen. Sometimes it's only possible to see when shift happened a few days later. So no angel choir, no sonic boom, no big insight. Relax about it.

Solving all your problems? Ha, good one. No, seeing truth does not solve problems. It's seeing that problems are all in the mind.

You mention that there is wanting to be special. It's actualy the other side- what you get is -ordinary. :)

Loss of something prescious and useful- how precious and useful is belief in I? That is the only thing that gets lost- the belief in magical separate entity me.

Other than that, we can leave the expectations for now and move forward.


Tell me precisely what comes up, thoughts, feelings, when you let the mind play with this:

There is no separate self at all in real life, no I, no me, no owner, controller, watcher, manager of life. None as in zero.


Much love.

[Innercall]

There is a mixed feeling. On one side there is peace and relief and on the other there is a subtle fear and an interrogation. I can also feel a small contraction in the area of my throat and chest while reading it. There is an excitement, an opening to the unknown, the kind you get when you do something new the first time or visiting a new place on a trip.

If there is no self, no watcher or controller then what? What is seeing? What is thinking? How comes all these perceptions exists? If there is no separated self how comes that there are perceptions that are limited to this body. Doesn't that makes a separate self, constitutes the me?

It also feels that there is something or someone that controls the actions that are performed and it must be me. It seems that I am taping these letters and that I control if I want to stop...

In a way when I think about there being no separate self, no me, no controller, I end up with an internal question like "then who or what am I ?" and then there is only nothing...a silence...but a silence that smiles in a kind of way.

In a way it feels right and true in a subtle and profound way and at the same time it feels like an unsolved enigma that needs to be solved on the level of the conceptual mind.

Love.

[Ilona]

Yes, it feels like an enigma until it doesn't.
I is a thought.
I am points to a feeling. That is this feeling of aliveness, sensations, movement, being.
That feeling has been assumed for a me, that is in charge.
There is controll and will, and focuss, all these experiences are being experienced, but not by I.
As I is nothing else but a thought.

Where do thoughts come from?

[Innercall]

They come from a space in the head. I feel they come from an impulse that is indistinct at first but gets clearer to become an articulated thought. As I look at it, a thought seems to manifest in the head from another thought or in reaction to an experience.

[Ilona]

Where in the head? Can you pin point the location?
Can you controll thoughts?
Can you choose which thoughts you want to think or stop thinking for 10 minutes?
Is there a thinker?


Answer when ready.

[Innercall]

Where in the head? Can you pin point the location?

There is no precise spot in the head; I could say it is mostly in the front part of the head but it is blurry with no clear frontier. Also, when it is thought in words it seems to be located as a subtle impulse in the area of the throat and mouth like the one used to talk but only more subtle. I guess I could say I can’t pinpoint a precise location.

Can you control thoughts?

I have taken a look at it and I just can’t control thoughts that are happening. Even if I try, I can always be surprised by what they happen to be. It seems to me that I can orient thoughts toward a general direction or an aim, like writing this message. But again, this aim or goal is a thought and did I really controlled that thought that set all the other thoughts in motion?... no. I just can’t control any thought, they just happen to be. They look linked together by something tough.

Can you choose which thoughts you want to think or stop thinking for 10 minutes?

Definitely not. Precisely when I look at it, I cannot impose any thought. Even when I want to, when I say ”I choose to think about….” the thought that appears is a complete surprise and once I am thinking something and I try to keep thinking it or thinking something related, I still get a new thought that I didn’t choose. Wow…

Is there a thinker?

When I read this, I hear that thought “is there a thinker?” in my mind and then I get…nothing. I don’t know… there are thoughts and they are perceived. I can’t find a solid, definite thinker... I find there are thoughts, they are perceived but I can’t find what make the thoughts. All the thoughts are different and unpredictable but the perception of thoughts is more constant. I feel like there is no thinker but there is a perceiver and it feels like me.

[Ilona]

Good work.
Perceiver? Is there a gap between Perceiver of thoughts, thoughts and thinking, or is it one process that we call thinking?

Test it with a sound. Just stop everything for 2 minutes and listen intently to all sounds that are present. Is there a heater of sounds separate from hering and heard?

Where does hearing happen? Listen to the distant sounds, where is the hearer then?
With closed eyes check if there is a line between here and there. Can it be defined?

[Innercall]

Test it with a sound. Just stop everything for 2 minutes and listen intently to all sounds that are present. Is there a heater of sounds separate from hearing and heard?

No; hearing and heard are at the same time all by themselves. When attention changes from one sound to the other, very quickly there is the memory of that new sound that plays back in mind and there is a related thought appearing that can be a judgment or recognition. That thought (memory of the sound with a tint of recognition) can be mistaken for a perceiving of the sound but the sound was already heard. So there is a gap but it is between the hearing and the thought that manifests because of it. I just can’t hear without thoughts about the hearing happening. Or rather I could say that there is no conscious hearing without thoughts appearing.

Where does hearing happen?

I can locate the sound. It can be on my left, on my right, near or far. I think I identify the place of hearing with the middle of all the sounds heard but I can’t pinpoint precisely more than that it is related to the ears.

Listen to the distant sounds, where is the hearer then?

I don’t know where the hearer is but a distant sound is recognized as distant and a sound on the left is recognized on the left. The hearing of the sound is analyzed in a way that locates the sound relatively to the position of my head. It then seems that the hearer is in the head or in the ears.

With closed eyes check if there is a line between here and there. Can it be defined?

A line can be defined between the sound and the position from which it is heard but not precisely. If the origin of the sound is moving, then I can sense the line between the sound and me changing direction.

Is there a gap between Perceiver of thoughts, thoughts and thinking, or is it one process that we call thinking?

It seems to me that there is no gap and it can be called the process of thinking. A little like mentioned for hearing, gaps do seem to be there but it is a gap between a thought and a new thought that is a judgment or recognition of this first thought that can be taken as a perceiving.

[Ilona]

Very good my friend.
So thoughts are coming from nowhere and to no one, there is no Perceiver of sound, what is going on here, what do you see? Is there a doer of actions?

[Innercall]

So thoughts are coming from nowhere and to no one, there is no Perceiver of sound, what is going on here, what do you see?

A part of me is fighting against this idea. It seems something is lacking in the equation. I feel very uncomfortable as I write this as if I am about to find out something very disappointing.
Ok so thinking is happening and hearing is happening and when I look at it closely, I can’t find to whom it is happening, it just happens, but only when I look very carefully and closely. I can’t attach the thinking or hearing to something specific. Something is missing.

Is there a doer of actions?

When I ask myself this question, a part of me is responding Yes with a sensation in the body around the upper chest and lower throat. When I look at it closely, every action starts from a thought. Right now, I take some time and wait for an action to happen. There are automatic actions that happen that I didn’t decide like clinging my eyes: no control, it just happens. All the voluntary actions start from a thought that is a complete surprise to me on which I had no control so impulse for action just happens. Then there seems to be a control on whether or not I act upon the thought…. Ok, I realized that for the last 15 minutes, nearly every action was done in the same mode as my eyes clinging, it just happened. There were also actions that came from a thought that I seem to have decided to do. For example, I decide to do an action….nothing… then there is this thought: “touch the glass”… then it will stay and repeat itself… that’s the moment where I get the sense of controlling the action by deciding to touch the glass or not.
So is there a doer of actions? I don’t know. I have difficulties finding it. Most of the time actions seem to happen and I must admit it is quite confusing.

[Ilona]

What is that I that is referred to in your posts?
What is looking closely?
Is there a subject in action?
Like I breathe, I walk, I snore, I eat, I think, I do?
What is being noticed? What is already obvious?