Let's do this!

[danl]

Reading and interrupted: attention is drawn to the interruption and I either choose to focus on the new thing, or I continue reading, usually with less focus than before if the interruption continues. With the choice there is a weighing of importance (is it better to read or to pay attention to the interruption).

[Armstrong]

Can you please explain what you (the "I" in your description) is? How big is it, where is it, etc? How does it make a choice? How does it reconfigure your experience? How much freedom/control does it have over your experience?

[Armstrong]

At this point I should remind you to be meticulous about describing your direct experience. Your last answer was quite imprecise in that regard. Please follow the guidelines as you agreed to.

[danl]

Apologies for not checking in.

The "I" in my description really wasn't anything more than the choosing. As I type this now, I'm interrupted by a pup that wants to play. Attention goes to the dog initially without any control. There are then thoughts of all of the tasks to accomplish tonight (again without any control or direction), and then noticing how cute she is along with the thought that she needs fun and affection. Then we play off and on until she is content. I didn't notice a decision to discontinue and start playing. Typing resumed, stopping several times to listen - wondering what she is getting into and resumes again with a slight feeling of relaxation after not hearing anything out of the ordinary.

[Armstrong]

Thanks for your reply.

I hope this next question interests you - could you explain in detail what the illusion of a separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience? Please describe it fully as you see it now

[danl]

It's late, so I may take another stab at answering this, but here it goes.

There is reading, and the realization that the message is directed to me. And the reader(I) is born because of labeling the reading experience as "me". There is also the thought that others are having experiences right now that I'm (another label for the experiences/awareness of my body) not aware of, and they are not aware of the reading I experience and the thoughts it triggers. That implies the experiences through this body are separate from theirs. It is natural or maybe automatic is a better term, to label that as "my" experience.

[Armstrong]

Nice. So are you running/controlling that process? Or is it automatic?

What is your experience like as your go through your day and notice "my" stuff versus "his" or "her" stuff? Can you see and describe how your mind labels things "mine"? That might be helpful to loo? At these next few days.

Eg my puppy versus some puppy that isn't yours.

Do you control that process? Is it automatic? Who runs it if not "you" - the thing that understands these words right now.

[danl]

It seems automatic. I'll watch the next few days.

Thanks

[danl]

My vehicle - The keys are in my possession, it is paid for with money earned from effort through this body, which generates a feeling or idea of 'mine'. While my neighbor's vehicle does not create this feeling, as I took no actions to deserve ownership. I feel it is theirs. There is no control of this process, it just happens as a result of the actions, the fact that the vehicle is always available to use, and the thought of having earned the right to it.

I also looked at the thought of "my neighbors". Their is no sense that they belong to me, it's just easier to label them this way instead of saying "people I know who live close to me". The thought just happens automatically in conversation. I could easily say "I'm going to a neighbor's party" without adding "my" to the statement but it still implies that it's "my neighbors".

[Armstrong]

Thanks very much.

Are you relying on memory (thoughts that arise due to associations)? How do you know your memories are true? Some people have dementia and believe all sorts of things that others don't believe. E.g. someone with dementia might sell you a car and moments later think you are stealing it when you get in it to drive it away.

The basic question - if you experience thoughts, how do you know they are true? Suppose you think, "that is mine" - can you prove it without recourse to another thought?

E.g. say you experience some thoughts, "he should be more polite to me" or "she is stupid and lazy" or even "that's mine" - do you really know it is true? If you don't have recourse to thoughts (or memories), what do you really know, other than "I just had the thought ..."

You seem to have a facility with this stuff now - so it'd be nice if you could describe what your direct experience is like if you try to notice what you are. Thoughts will probably spring to mind, "I'm a blah blah blah blah..." -- is it possible for you to notice how automatic that is? If you have the thought, "I'm a pile of shirts", "I'm a bunch of meat" or "I'm not very good with people" or "I don't quite fit in with that crowd - I'm exceptional", does that mean it is true?

[danl]

Thank you for sticking with me.

As I try to notice what I am, awareness is directed inward, I notice the feeling of my feet on the floor, my arms on the chair, fullness in my torso, the ever present tinnitus, and a sense of looking past those physical sensations into what is noticing them, then a thought pops up "what is directing the focus?". The answer "I am" comes fast, but as I keep looking to see what "I am" is, there is nothing but the looking. Then I notice a slight pressure on the top of my skull and I can feel my nose and between my eyes. These sensations pull the focus away from the looking. I try this several times and the thought of the "eye trying to see itself" arises. The thoughts pass, and there is only the sensations in the body and the looking.

[Armstrong]

That's a very nice description of your experience.

Do you get that the words you could use to characterize yourself are arbitrary (they just pop into your head), aren't necessarily true and either are too limited ("I am a person" when there's a rich flow of sensation and no person in there) or don't make sense in ("I am awareness")?

It is important that you note that your experience of being you is different than what you think about it, say about it, etc. -- so looking at it, right now, is what matters.

When you look this way, do you perceive a boundary between you and the seeing, hearing, feeling, etc? That is, you as subject, connected via a medium (eg seeing) to the object? Or does that shift when you pay attention closely?

Also, do you feel done now? Do you have a sense of what you are?

[danl]

Thank you. :)

Do you get that the words you could use to characterize yourself are arbitrary (they just pop into your head), aren't necessarily true and either are too limited ("I am a person" when there's a rich flow of sensation and no person in there) or don't make sense in ("I am awareness")?

Yes, they are labels and nothing more.

When you look this way, do you perceive a boundary between you and the seeing, hearing, feeling, etc? That is, you as subject, connected via a medium (eg seeing) to the object? Or does that shift when you pay attention closely?

There is no boundary.

Also, do you feel done now? Do you have a sense of what you are?

I do. When I first read this there was a thought that I should look closer to be sure, as if I might see more. Then I laughed, because it has been here the whole time.

Thanks for all you do!

[Armstrong]

There are a few questions you could answer - you might have seen them in the other threads or in the book. There's a variety of reasons why it might be fun or interesting for you. It would allow some other guides to quickly read them and see if there's some ground I negelected to cover. Does that sound like somehing you want to do now?

[danl]

Sure, I'm game.