Guide

[Robertdjemil]

Looking forward to continuing :) sleep well

[Canfora]

Hello, hello and good morning.

Can you give me at least 3 examples of things that you see going on in your immediate experience that are happening without a you?

Other way of asking the same: if you can see there is no separate you ruling your world, how are things happening?

Have a look and describe what you see, please.

If you need a little help with this I can suggest specific places were you can look.

[Robertdjemil]

Morning :)

I had a walk over the park this morning & the birds were singing, trees rustling, wind blowing. These are definitely things happening in my experience without a me. In addition & as there's no Me, as I can be perceived, there's walking, talking, thinking, seeing

I don't know how things are happening, I guess they just are

Can you please suggest specific places to look

[Canfora]

It seems you're seeing with clarity the general picture, great!
I would like you to focus in something specific and choice / control are usually a stumbling block. So here are some suggestions around choosing:

Let’s see if we can find a chooser.

Choose a drink, for example tea/coffee/another drink or between two or three objects placed in front of you (blue pen/black pen/pencil etc.).
Then sit and see if you can find 'the self' who made that choice?
If so, where exactly did that choice happen?

Why was one option selected over another? What factors are involved in the decision?
Can you find a choice point (a location of choosing)?

Try to describe the process of 'choosing', viewed in direct experience. Let me know what you find.

[Robertdjemil]

I looked at the three drinks & chose a herbal tea. I was scanning my options & the herbal tea seemed the most healthy & my mind jumped to that decision & I chose that one. It appeared like it was me making the choice even though I can't find a ME or a location in which the decision was made although it appeared to be made from my mind

I'm not sure what factors were made in the decision but possibly, health, vision, feel etc. the coffee seemed a bit heavy, I didn't fancy the tea & the herbal tea seemed the most obvious. The decision was imagined first by thinking about the taste, smell, sight & then a choice was made

[Canfora]

I looked at the three drinks & chose a herbal tea. I was scanning my options & the herbal tea seemed the most healthy & my mind jumped to that decision & I chose that one. It appeared like it was me making the choice even though I can't find a ME or a location in which the decision was made although it appeared to be made from my mind

When you look, can you find a mind? A place where thoughts are stored, a container where thinking happens?

Can you be aware of more than a thought at once?

I'm not sure what factors were made in the decision but possibly, health, vision, feel etc. the coffee seemed a bit heavy, I didn't fancy the tea & the herbal tea seemed the most obvious. The decision was imagined first by thinking about the taste, smell, sight & then a choice was made

Are you sure you gave the apparent decision such consideration? Or is this ^ a little story explaining how the decision happened?

Are thoughts the reason why decisions are happening? Does a thought have the power to make you do something?

Try raising your hand. Look at it very closely. Did a thought “own” that? Was it a self that chose to do that? Now, pretend someone just threw a ball at your head. Watch the hand move, very quickly. Does the hand “choose” to come up and catch the ball? Or does it just rise and catch it, without a thought? Now, raise your hand and move it to the left, then to the right. Watch the thoughts. Look for a self, something which is not just a thought, which is able to move your hand. Check and see where a story attaches to that thought, where “I raise my hand” comes in. Before, during, or after the raising?

[Robertdjemil]

The only mind & can see is that which appears to reside in my brain, yet, I can't find a place where thoughts are stored or a container where thinking happens. I still only understand this intellectually. I seem to be stuck in a stubborn mindset thinking the body is somehow responsible for thought.

I can't be aware of more than one thought at once

I think I made up a little story possibly. I need some help looking at things from
Direct experience. You've explained it before but I'm struggling with understanding what inner enquiry is & how it works & what to look at other-than from a logical, thiught, mind perspective

It does appear that thoughts are what drives decisions, yes

Thoughts do seem to have power to make me do things, not always but they do certainly carry an element of influence

There's been one occasion when I was falling off to sleep that I lifted my arm & as I lifted it, a nano second after a though attached to it. I've only managed to experience that once although I've tried it many times. That once was enough to convince me that thoughts seem to attach to bodily movements that are just happening





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[Robertdjemil]

I looked at the three drinks & chose a herbal tea. I was scanning my options & the herbal tea seemed the most healthy & my mind jumped to that decision & I chose that one. It appeared like it was me making the choice even though I can't find a ME or a location in which the decision was made although it appeared to be made from my mind

When you look, can you find a mind? A place where thoughts are stored, a container where thinking happens?

Can you be aware of more than a thought at I'm not sure what factors were made in the decision but possibly, health, vision, feel etc. the coffee seemed a bit heavy, I didn't fancy the tea & the herbal tea seemed the most obvious. The decision was imagined first by thinking about the taste, smell, sight & then a choice was made

Are you sure you gave the apparent decision such consideration? Or is this ^ a little story explaining how the decision happened?

Try raising your hand. Look at it very closely. Did a thought “own” that? Was it a self that chose to do that? Now, pretend someone just threw a ball at your head. Watch the hand move, very quickly. Does the hand “choose” to come up and catch the ball? Or does it just rise and catch it, without a thought? Now, raise your hand and move it to the left, then to the right. Watch the thoughts. Look for a self, something which is not just a thought, which is able to move your hand. Check and see where a story attaches to that thought, where “I raise my hand” comes in. Before, during, or after the raising?[/quote]

[Robertdjemil]

Are thoughts the reason why decisions are happening? Does a thought have the power to make you do something?

Yes I thoughts, thoughts were why decisions were being made & yes I believed thoughts have the power in part anyway to get us to do something.

Isn't a decision based on thoughts?

[Canfora]

I have the impression Robert that we are drifting away from the path, into a territory of "how things are" (my fault!) and our goal isn't to see how things are but if there is a separate self in reality.

Did you found a self making choices or decisions?

[Robertdjemil]

I didn't find a self making choices or decisions. I have a very inquisitive mind, hence wanting answers. I'm also having a problem seeing things from direct experience. I think I need some assistance is looking in the right way. Is that possible?

[Canfora]

I have the impression that you already can see what is happening in your direct experience and I made things harder for you than it was needed...

Can you please describe what you can see going on in your experience right now?

[Robertdjemil]

In my experience, everything seems as it always been, nothing has changed. I can only say that I can't find a self that's controlling anything. However, it appears to be a conceptual belief rather than any knowing. That leaves me in a place of not knowing for sure as to whether the belief is real or just a belief

[Canfora]

I can only say that I can't find a self that's controlling anything.

So you looked for this self and couldn't find one - is this what you're saying above?

However, it appears to be a conceptual belief rather than any knowing.

Can you please explain why seeing there is no separate self appears to be a conceptual belief?

How would the knowing that there is no self be like?

[Robertdjemil]

Yes that's what i'm saying

It appears to be conceptual because other than seeing that there's no self controlling anything, absolutely nothing has changed. I don't feel liberated, in fact, I don't feel anything different. If anything I'm in a strange place insofar there's no ME doing anything but I know that I AM, alive, aware & consciousness, I am something but with no apparent definition of what that is other than an acceptance of what IS showing up. There's seems to be nothing I need to do or can do other that try & enjoy the journey for what it is