thank you

[Sarah7]

Hi Katrijn

So I thought I wasn't doing very well with this today... Then suddenly it hit me while watching a football game that the witness-thing is ALSO a thought/feeling. The witness is NOT always there. It is gone when I'm caught up in other thoughts, or reacting to something, and also when sleeping. A lot of the time actually. So the witness also comes and goes. That opened something up, but it scared me at the same time. Because if I am not even that which is looking/experiencing everything, does that mean I am nothing at all? What does that even mean? It sounds silly when I write it down, but I was really concerned about this, and it made me stuck. I thought until today that "you are awareness" meant I am the witness, even though on another level I knew that wasn't quite right. Not sure whether this is "good enough". What do I do now?

OK what you do now is breathe! Im going to give you a few things to look at here. I want you to take them one at a time and slowly look. No rush. Allow them into you. Be with them. OK!

What notices the witness too?

Picture a mirror – with a multitude of reflections crossing its surface. Picture an ocean with waves rising and falling? Is the ocean empty?

What is ‘it made me stuck’? Is that a thought story?

Is what notices the fear fearful?
Big hugs Sarah xxx

[Sarah7]

Im also going to pm you - see above! S xxx

[Katrijn]

Ok, thanks Sarah, will post results tomorrow.

[Katrijn]

Well yesterday I found myself distracted with lots of thoughts about health, exercise and nutrition. My favorite escape. It is obviously an area “I” am unwilling to let go of (i.e. I keep believing I have to control this part of my life). The thoughts are: If you don’t manage your nutrition and exercise, all hell will break loose, you will slowly turn into a fat sick slob… etc. So I know the question is: what is aware of these thoughts? Nothing. It is all just happening, the thoughts are coming, the thoughts about control are coming, the fear behind the thoughts is appearing, the fear of losing control is appearing.

Yeah. Well, clearly none of it establishes there is a “me” doing anything… :-)
But it did produce a distracted Sunday.

What notices the witness too?

Nothing. There is no one there noticing. There is noticing happening. Same as thoughts happening and actions happening. The witness is noticed. Then it is no longer noticed and something else is happening. Then thoughts about exercise appear. Then the witnessing again. The sensation of it being behind the eyes. Then it is gone again.

Picture a mirror – with a multitude of reflections crossing its surface. Picture an ocean with waves rising and falling? Is the ocean empty?

The ocean is not empty. Still, there is fear of losing control of life when the me disappears. The “me” thought thinks other thoughts about having to manage (certain aspects of) life. If not, shit WILL happen! :-) It is not true, but still feels sticky true...

What is ‘it made me stuck’? Is that a thought story?

Yep, another thought story. Lots of those around.

Is what notices the fear fearful?

So, the fear of losing control. What notices the fear is not fearful. But “I” wants “that which notices” to be ME (the same old me that is not actually there). The thought this morning is: ok, me will allow itself to disappear if the universe promises this body will not turn into a fat and sick body.
It is quite funny really. It is all thought. The fear is a sensation of contraction, with many more thoughts.
And all of it on automatic pilot. The illusion of control, another thought. Looping around in thoughts.

[Sarah7]

Hi Katrijn

Well yesterday I found myself distracted with lots of thoughts about health, exercise and nutrition. My favorite escape. It is obviously an area “I” am unwilling to let go of (i.e. I keep believing I have to control this part of my life). The thoughts are: If you don’t manage your nutrition and exercise, all hell will break loose, you will slowly turn into a fat sick slob… etc. So I know the question is: what is aware of these thoughts? Nothing. It is all just happening, the thoughts are coming, the thoughts about control are coming, the fear behind the thoughts is appearing, the fear of losing control is appearing.

The ocean is not empty. Still, there is fear of losing control of life when the me disappears. The “me” thought thinks other thoughts about having to manage (certain aspects of) life. If not, shit WILL happen! :-) It is not true, but still feels sticky true... What is ‘it made me stuck’? Is that a thought story?

OK – so more looking till you are clear. Does the body move regardless of thoughts about exercise? Is there an assumption that exercise and diet will go if no thoughts – and is that another story? Where is the evidence for ‘shit will happen’? Is that a future thought story? In fact how much of this above is future thought story?
Without all these thoughts – would there even be a problem?
Are thoughts the enemy?

So, the fear of losing control. What notices the fear is not fearful. But

No but………keep looking at what notices. Is it ever not there? What notices anger – is it angry? What notices thoughts – is it thinking? What notices fear – is it fearful. Check through the day – what notices? Is what notices ever having a crisis? Is what notices ever having a problem? Keep looking.

But “I” wants “that which notices” to be ME (the same old me that is not actually there). The thought this morning is: ok, me will allow itself to disappear if the universe promises this body will not turn into a fat and sick body. It is quite funny really. It is all thought. The fear is a sensation of contraction, with many more thoughts. And all of it on automatic pilot. The illusion of control, another thought. Looping around in thoughts.

LOL – lovely thoughts! There is love there. Thank them! :)
Can you disappear if you weren’t even there?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Katrijn]

Thanks Sarah!

Without all these thoughts – would there even be a problem?
Are thoughts the enemy?

Yes, the assumption (thought!) is exercise and diet will go out the window if there is no thinking about them. But diet and exercise also just happen. The decision arises to go to yoga class. The body eats the banana (followed by the thought I should eat a banana and not the cookie) … If eating cookies happened, the “I” would believe it had a great reason for that AFTER the fact (can’t eat 100% healthy all the time, bla bla bla).
No thoughts, no problem. No management issues :-) No “I” to control or not control. Thoughts are not the enemy unless they are taken to be about a real person with “issues”, about a life to be managed and controlled.

At lunch today, smoked salmon showed up in my lunchbox. There were thoughts about having put it in there based on other thoughts that this body needs more omega-3 fatty acids. There was some amusement at the idea (thought!) that this had anything to do with the fish now being in my lunchbox.

No but………keep looking at what notices. Is it ever not there? What notices anger – is it angry? What notices thoughts – is it thinking? What notices fear – is it fearful. Check through the day – what notices? Is what notices ever having a crisis? Is what notices ever having a problem? Keep looking.

It is all just happening. It is all just happening. It is all just happening.
This keeps showing up during the day: It is all just happening.
There doesn’t seem to be anything that is noticing. Noticing sometimes happens.
In the noticing, there is a felt sense of distance to what else is happening.

Can you disappear if you weren’t even there?

No. And I don’t need “me” for anything either. “Me” would like to have a role to play, a job to do. But it is playing a game… HA HA! Just realized that NO ONE is able to control ANYTHING!!! All these bodies and minds everywhere worrying about controlling things! Especially obvious at work.

So now “I” thinks it has to do something to get an insight that will make it disappear for good :-)
Yet another thought. A never-ending string of thoughts.

[Sarah7]

Hey Katrijn
Yet again some lovely noticing here.

It is all just happening. It is all just happening. It is all just happening.

OK – picture a mirror. Picture reflections crossing its surface. Then look at thought crossing what is imagined to be the minds surface. Then look around at work. Do you see the movement just happening, decisions just happening, all reflections crossing the mirrors surface.
Can any reflection touch or hurt the mirror? Are any reflections not supposed to be there? Does the mirror prefer one reflection to another? Does the mirror see all, notice all? Now something you cant see – as you have tried – notices all and sees all – sees doing happening, sees decisions taking place, sees thoughts. Sometimes the seeing is not noticed but the fact is wasn’t noticed is noticed! As reflections cross the mirrors surface does what is noticed cross yours? Is there any difference between you and the mirror?

So now “I” thinks it has to do something to get an insight that will make it disappear for good :-)
Yet another thought. A never-ending string of thoughts.

Well spotted! Yes – this may well come up again and again! Thoughts want….. blah blah blah… :) Is that OK? If not – to who or what wouldn’t it be ok?
How do you feel?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Katrijn]

Hi Sarah,
I don't know -- today I seem to be lost. Can't concentrate on any question and feel very, very distant to anything happening. Like I just took the seat at the back in the bus and don't even care where we're going.
Yes, just more thoughts and feelings appearing and passing by. But nothing seems to be changing. "I" wants something to change! Sigh. I understand this is not a fruitful direction, and that I should look at what is looking, but nothing is happening in that area today. Do you have any tips? Thank you for your help.

[Sarah7]

Hey Katrijn

I don't know -- today I seem to be lost. Can't concentrate on any question and feel very, very distant to anything happening. Like I just took the seat at the back in the bus and don't even care where we're going. Yes, just more thoughts and feelings appearing and passing by. But nothing seems to be changing. "I" wants something to change! Sigh. I understand this is not a fruitful direction, and that I should look at what is looking, but nothing is happening in that area today. Do you have any tips? Thank you for your help.

We tend to steer well clear of what is called bad feelings and want to feel good all the time. But again – what is ever permanent?

I want you to go straight to this ‘I wants something to change’ thought. Stare right at it! See it. Be with it. Notice it. Love it! :) Thank it. Breathe with it. Just like the fear exercise - What is this ‘want’ made up of? Feelings? Sensations? Story? Gently move the story to one side. Be aware that thoughts want to ‘do something’ to make everything right! Can you see those thoughts? That’s because there is love there – thank them. Are you under threat here? Is there danger? No? Sit with the feeling. That’s it. Can you do that?

What is noticed?
Big hugs Sarah xxx

[Katrijn]

Thank you for that Sarah.

The "I" wants something to change because it wants to feel spiritually happy, "enlightened", whatever. It just wants to feel good and have a role to play in making me feel good. It just wants "me" to be happy. Thoughts are: give me something to do, something to change, something to work on, and I will make us feel good.

It is really just more of the same, isn't it? No threat or danger, just an "I" in need of a job to do.

Underneath is also sadness, heaviness in the chest, like I would need to let go of so many dreams and wishes and self-improvement projects... If just THIS IS, then where is the project, the goal, the meaning?

More thoughts and feelings on the surface of the mirror :-)
Mirror still there, with or without self-improvement projects...
I suppose this thing that thinks it's an "I" is going to continue doing its thing.

[Sarah7]

Hi Katrijn

The "I" wants something to change because it wants to feel spiritually happy, "enlightened", whatever. It just wants to feel good and have a role to play in making me feel good. It just wants "me" to be happy. Thoughts are: give me something to do, something to change, something to work on, and I will make us feel good.

Do you mean thoughts want? What is this ‘I’? Where is this ‘I’? Is it another thought? An invented bad guy????? LOL.

Underneath is also sadness, heaviness in the chest, like I would need to let go of so many dreams and wishes and self-improvement projects... If just THIS IS, then where is the project, the goal, the meaning?

OK – so another story starting here about thoughts not being needed! Thoughts will always be needed – but in useful ways – rather than being a slave to. Do you see? No one has suggested thinking will never happen again! You think Buddha never thought! LOL.
Also is that feeling really sadness - or another story overlaying a sensation?

More thoughts and feelings on the surface of the mirror :-)
Mirror still there, with or without self-improvement projects...
I suppose this thing that thinks it's an "I" is going to continue doing its thing.

Well – is future real? Can you experience the future? Thoughts will send out a story to try and predict future – that’s love and that’s ok – but do you see it? Has thought ever predicted correctly exactly what will happen, in perfect order? Probably not! :) Just see it and smile!

Can you now go back to the first post on May 19th and have a look?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Katrijn]

Well, "I" am that which notices everything happening, including the thought stories, the getting caught up in thought stories, the stories about future and the thoughts about sensations.

At the moment, frustration at work is happening, and looking for other jobs is happening. This is not a problem, just things happening. Apparently, looking for jobs is showing up. There was no me in that decision. Today there was also updating of my CV. The details listed in this document had no correlation to that which was noticing the document being updated. There could easily be a story, about "me" and how this me is frustrated and needs a new job etc etc. This story kind of half showed-up in the background (for want of a better way to describe it), but did not seem worth believing. There is a lot of freedom and peace in something that would normally be all depressing and stressful.

Again, possible thoughts on the perimeter about the future, possible new job, relocating --- but no belief in them or need to entertain them, so they don't take hold. Language is getting complicated, because there is obviously no real "me" (control center) there to direct or manage or comment on anything.

So there are long, long strings of thought, and thoughts about thoughts, and thoughts that are simply not believable at all. And then there are actions and doings and things happening. And finally there are thoughts that would like to tell a story about other thoughts or create a narrative between thoughts and actions.

That's it.

[Sarah7]

Hey Katrijn
OK then - lets have a tidy up session! As always, in direct experience:
Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?
Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?
Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?
Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?
Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations?
Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?
Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?
Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

Do you feel the illusion of self has been revealed? If so what remains?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Katrijn]

Hi Sarah,

Took my time answering -- looking at the truth…

There is no self/experiencer to be found in direct experience. There are a hell of a lot of thoughts about a self/experiencer that tell a very convincing story about a self, but no self.
Nothing controls anything at all. Decisions just happen (when looked at, often in complete contradiction to the story thoughts tell about the type of decisions this me would like to make). Thoughts DEFINITELY just happen (it is almost always pouring thoughts). No one is thinking them.
The body is a cute generalisation thought about a bunch of sensations, also extremely convincing since the thoughts include fear about the health of the body. Fear thoughts seem very convincing, but are still only thoughts. By the way: there is no association of a “me” with the image that shows up in a mirror anymore. It is just an image in a mirror.
Very often, the overlaying thoughts are believed about a me doing the seeing, hearing, feeling etc. Nevertheless, it is thoughts that say this and there is no one doing or evoking the hearing or seeing.

There is an almost continuous feeling and thought that the awareness that is experienced is cut off from other people’s awareness. A very convincing thought that every locus around every body has its own awareness (can’t even describe this properly). However, there is no way of knowing this. It is just something believed to be true. It seems now that the world and other bodies appear in my awareness, but at the same time there is the belief/thought that others must have their own awareness. Ok, more thought. Fact is: there is no direct experience of other awarenesses.

There is no doubt that the self is a mental fabrication. It is very, very convincing and very, very “addictive”, but it is in fact a fabrication. What is going on is thoughts, sensations, actions, the typing on the keyboard, more thoughts, seeing, hearing --- a continuous stream of stuff going on, but there does not seem to be any evidence for a control center of all that. There are some thoughts about “this cannot be good enough” and “no way that this insight will remain in place” and “just wait until you experience pain or something bad happens and then we’ll talk about there being no you” etc etc. This thinking stuff is really impressive. 99.9% of experience seems to be thought after thought after thought. And none of it is chosen or controlled. It is very relieving to realize: “just thoughts”.

[Sarah7]

Hey Katrijn
Is something bothered by how many thoughts there are, or by the fact that they seem to tell stories?

Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

Do you feel the illusion of self has been revealed? If so what remains?
Hugs Sarah xxx