hoping that now is here - can someone guide me please?

[kvotski]

No, its not OK.

you say "I know that feeling". hmmm!

What is that feeling? Same as a good joint or ahyuasca or acid like Ram Dass describes?

What is this expectation?

At LU we have talked for days on so called fireworks way of liberation. Did Buddha describe fireworks in his satori and vipassana experience? Nearly all teachers ask to stay away from this expectation. Try to find out why,

Hint, how can this experience happen to an illusory entity?

[kgreenbank]

think my post was lost. ok. maybe a repeat. doesn't matter. clarity emerging here.

I thought realisation was a THING, an event. something magical and mystical to happen. but instead, is it actually just as mundane as "I realised I left my umbrella in the taxi"... "I realised there is no self". The same as that. Can it really be that simple?

Ditto seeing. I thought I needed to find a supersense, some kind of extrapowerful internal scanning super- vision. But instead there's a "oh yeah right, I see" Is that IT??? For real?

This is pretty funny. And really disappointing. And funny

I will carry on digging. There more, I feel it.

[kvotski]

Yes, really funny and really disappointing to one that is the illusion.

[kvotski]

https://youtu.be/DuwUIRhwfJE

Take a look. Is the thinker also a thought?

[kgreenbank]

Hi Sunil

I'm pretty frustrated today. Yesterday in answer to the question "is there something that is thinking these thoughts" it was seen clearly that there is not. It was completely obvious. Like seeing that there is no 'thing' that grows the grass. Grass just grows. It doesn't need a 'grower' Thoughts arise. Same thing. Obvious. It wasn't that the entire felt sense of Kate disappeared, or I was consumed by mystical reverie (wow I have had some fancy expectations haven't I...omg! *embarrassed face* ), but the existence of a 'thought author' was just seen for what it was: an obvious falsehood. And seen so easily too, no drama. Just like I said - "oh yeah, that's right, uh huh". And it was funny. And then I wrote to you. And then I stopped being able to see it. Even though it was so completely unremarkable, the seeing of this, now that I can't see it, it feels like a portal opened for a moment and now it's not only shut I don't have any idea how to look for it again.

It's challenging to look, when at work etc. I have this idea that I need to be completely still and focused, like a meditation, minimal distraction. Is that another expectation / obstacle?

Thank you for the Mooji vid.

Take a look. Is the thinker also a thought?

Yes. Is this true in direct experience today? No. Not right now.

Homework please. What am I doing wrong? Feel a bit sad tbh.
thank you very much.... Kate

practical question: I have started hypnotherapy to quit smoking. First session yesterday, in which the 'whole story of Kate' gets retold to the therapist. Is this process likely to get in the way of what we are doing here?

[kvotski]

Hi Kate,

How can an illusion that took decades to form leave you alone in a few days? Look what you are having to do with smoking? And no, I don't see anything wrong with hypno therapy. We can't be dishonest under hypnosis, can we?

One practice, Ilona likes to teach is taking ten minutes to make a list of all I doings like, I am sitting, I am eating, I am walking, etc. then rewrite them without the I. Thinking goes on, walking happens... Etc.

It may seem obvious but writing them out and then feeling the effect may help.

You have to be prepared to talk to yourself often once you have seen through the illusion. This is not a dogma, not a belief. It's simple direct seeing. By the way, there is no other kind. All others are imagineering, hypothicating, pure bs coming from conditioning.

One other thing I like to do is to follow a thought back to its source and see each time that nothing in my head or any other head is original. They are all related to something else. Even great discoveries are uncovering something that already exists. Einstein didn't make the general relativity. He just found it. If it wasn't him some other brain would have found it. In the illusion, a Kate wants to take credit. Don't give it to her. It's just happening.

[kvotski]

It's challenging to look, when at work etc. I have this idea that I need to be completely still and focused, like a meditation, minimal distraction. Is that another expectation / obstacle

?

Why is that? Could it be that when you are still, you lose this attachment illusion with body and senses? As soon as you move physically or a thought, mind comes in and says look, I am doing it.

Some exercises I find useful in reminding me even at work are simple touch sensation. Close your eyes and touch your hair. Is that hair or bunch of silky threads? Is that your hair or a wig?

Touch your hand. Are the fingers touching the hand or is the back of your hand touching the fingers? Anything there to support the belief that they are yours?

Make a dynamic 24/7 meditation out of these.

[kvotski]

Dear Kate,

Our methods are different. We first know the truth and then let that knowledge shape our lives. Very similar to what mooji teaches except no god, awareness or consciousness. I will let you know when I have direct experience.

The other way of religion and years of practice can also work. It prepares the body to accept this truth about I being an illusion.

Both or a combination are good. But truth is truth, doesn't matter how you get there. There is no Santa Claus, doesn't mean he won't pay you a visit in your dreams.

[kgreenbank]

Hi Kate,

How can an illusion that took decades to form leave you alone in a few days? Look what you are having to do with smoking?

That is such a kind thing to say. I REALLY appreciate that you said that.

And I really appreciate the clear directions. Amazing. OK, will do as you have suggested and report back in a day or so.

Thank you. K

[kgreenbank]

How can an illusion that took decades to form leave you alone in a few days? Look what you are having to do with smoking?

Hi Sunil.

What you said, there, above. I can’t express sufficient gratitude for that. It has permitted a kind of relaxing. I realise I have been expecting some kind of magic elevator to Oneness, a Big Reveal: “omg there’s nobody here!” Such foolishness :-)

Here’s what’s been happening today.

One practice, Ilona likes to teach is taking ten minutes to make a list of all I doings like, I am sitting, I am eating, I am walking, etc. then rewrite them without the I. Thinking goes on, walking happens... Etc.

I haven’t done this yet, but I totally get why this could have an effect. I have noticed that writing to you has an effect. (which is presumably why you ask me to write you daily. Doh!). A similar experience was this: I met a friend for coffee. He has just got a guide on LU. We hold up a good mirror for one another. We talked about this stuff. There was absolute certainty for me. Absolute. As I talked there was a ‘distancing’ between “my” speech and gesticulation (i.e a sense of involuntariness, of spontaneity, of noticing words just being spoken) and also a “closening” (can’t find a better word) of everything else – seeing in particular was completely THERE. (Language is proving completely inadequate here.) Quite a strong emotion came up – not fear this time; something more like joy actually. And tears pricking the eyes. Which I didn’t allow as I was in my work café. Ha. Then the I sense returning, and then loosening again somehow and more “presencing” happening. (Hopeless. More words in the English language than any other and still useless here)

Still, if this is a load of garbage then you’ll soon be telling me.

This has been gently coming and going today. Nothing dramatic. Just a sense that something is dissolving, or falling away. Very gentle. Feels nice. Natural. Unforced. A senior partner at work asked “How are you?” today and the word “Lovely” came out of my mouth. Ha! That caused a raised eyebrow

There was a realisation later. Not sure how well I can put this into words:
I do not know that I was born. Or had a childhood. Or a yesterday or even a second ago. All of these things are experienced as memories, which are just thoughts arising in that moment. A memory is no more real than any other thought. Thoughts come and go. They are contradictory and unreliable. It has been seen that there is no thing thinking the thoughts. But the I sense attaches to the current thought and adds it to the ‘story of me’. The truth is I don’t know anything at all. Literally, I know nothing. There is no evidence of anything happening before this present moment. All there is, is this. This is it.

To be clear, that isn’t my current experience; just that a deep knowing arose of this. (On the London Underground of all places). I am still a person who thinks she is real and is living a life. Writing that tho, I can’t not say in all honesty that I know that to be true. I am not CERTAIN of it any more.

The thing about touching my hands. I don’t know. There’s no apparent boundary where the senses stop and start. The belief that they are my hands is not certain now. Some moments my hands feel more like my hands than other moments. Some moments when they seem just like hands, not my hands at all. That seems to be completely ok.

I'll just take a moment to tell you that you are awesome for doing this.

Kate

[kvotski]

And you are awesome for doing this. My eyes teared hearing about your experience in the cafe. That's the best fireworks, it's genuine and doesn't require stimulant or hours of meditation. No, I won't rain on that parade, I can't as I can feel it thousands of miles away.

Keep the focus on. Here mooji had a good idea and that was to realise that all senses are reporting nonsense to you unless they are trying to protect the body truly.

If you were here, I would give you a hug. That's oneness.

As I wrote to one of my Lu friends today, if I is not a separate self, there can't be ANY separate self. Is there any better argument for just one, adviata?

Think of all the beautiful and pleasant moments in your life. They were not spectacular. They were sweet, mild and beautiful like this one. Evangelists have built an expectation to have the fireworks. I am not for or against a mind blowing experience. It's just that it has nothing to do with truth. It's just another body experience like being in the zone, a child's unsolicited hug, or my cat maharaja whacking me with his tail.

Much love to you.

[kgreenbank]

My eyes teared hearing about your experience in the cafe. That's the best fireworks, it's genuine and doesn't require stimulant or hours of meditation. No, I won't rain on that parade, I can't as I can feel it thousands of miles away.

yes! *smiles* I was so hoping that I was communicating it properly. words are USELESS. haha

If you were here, I would give you a hug. That's oneness. As I wrote to one of my Lu friends today, if I is not a separate self, there can't be ANY separate self.

No, there is not. There is only THIS. This is somehow known. And I hug you back. There are more onion layers to peel off but it's all completely ok. How could it be otherwise? On we go. K x

[kvotski]

Very good. Take your time and see how it unfolds over the next day. Post when you feel like.

[kgreenbank]

morning. ahh. happiness here. very peaceful

here is what is going on. today is my birthday by the way. it's a very nice day so far.

woke up, me myself and I fully present. doubts arising about whether any of what I have told you is even true. wrote out 'I am sitting, I am listening to the radio... etc" and then again without the I am. Hand moving across the page. Words were being written all by themselves. Listening and what was heard were not separate. That hadn't happened with sound before. only lasted a few moments

Another moment: Washing up a cup. Watching my hands. No idea what they are going to do next. Sense of amazement at what they are doing.

Back to being me. Take the train to work. Closed eyes on the train, asking "Is there something thinking these thoughts?" Then it is clearly seen that there is not. That's not quite right - it's not that something that is not there is not seen (double negative?) but it's just obvious that there is nothing there. of course there isn't. Something like spaciousness instead. The taste of my chewing gum is the same as tasting it. Jaw and tongue are felt, are chewing but are not "mine". Eyes closed still, the sound of the Spanish people talking next to me is not separate from hearing them. Awareness and experience are the same thing, for these senses anyway at that moment. Open my eyes - I am here still.

This comes and goes. One minute I am Kate having thoughts like "well I am a long way from that gate aren't I? who am kidding here" and then something shifts. It is completely obvious that there is nothing doing anything. Mostly everything is the same, except that "I" have no centre. Absolutely nothing remarkable at all. Just how it is. Seeing (visual sense) has deepened (not sure that is the right word). 'Perspective' and 'depth' are not there sometimes, or not in the same way. Over there is the same as up close - everything is just HERE. Immediate. Fresh.

I feel a little giddy with this. But it's really really lovely. I am smiling inside, very deep. When this is seen it is seen. When it is not (which, to be clear, is the great majority of the time) I am not even sure of what it was, or whether it was real. I'm like "wait, I lost it, argh, what was it???" The question that seems to most effectively trigger it is "is there something that is thinking these thoughts?" I don't seem to have any control over when I want to ask that question tho.

I am at work. The fear about this has gone. It's like a dance now. Playful. Gentle. Kind, even.

Any suggestions? Love and gratitude Sunil. Kate xx

[kvotski]

Yes, enjoy your birthday today, fully without being there. Happy day.

When you feel, you have lost it again, immediately ask what is lost? Nothing doesn't have many colors.

When you find you are here again what is here? Are they objects, senses or something more?