My Story. Looking for a guide...

[NoKevin]

Every time I think of a doubt it is disproved by direct experience. The main doubt I keep having is that of dependence on the body for consciousness. I guess that is all that comes to mind right now. The thought that sense perception requires the body. I guess it is difficult to have a direct experience that doesn't include the body.

[Josephkoudelka]

The main doubt I keep having is that of dependence on the body for consciousness. I guess that is all that comes to mind right now. The thought that sense perception requires the body. I guess it is difficult to have a direct experience that doesn't include the body.

Lets look at the belief that sense perception requires a body.

That there are sense instruments that are part of the body is not denied. Eyes, ears, nose, tongue and body correspond to seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, and physical sensations.

Does a sense perception know you or do you know all sense perceptions?

[NoKevin]

You know all sense perceptions.

[NoKevin]

Im going to go a little more in depth here as it would be nice to have these thoughts stop arising unnecessarily. I know the experience of sense perception. That is to say the true I, awareness itself, knows the experience of sense perception now, in the present moment.

The issue I am having is thought itself. Thought exists in the brain. Almost as a 7th sense in experience. Whether I know the thoughts is where difficulty arises. Or whether thoughts of knowing thoughts are simply occurring. At times, particularly during meditation, I notice thoughts arise. When this happens, another thought arises to say "ahhh, I just had a thought" or "ahhh, I am aware of my thoughts". This however is obviously another thought.

So all in all the awareness is quickly associated with the I and immediately becomes a thought in itself.

[NoKevin]

Almost as a 7th sense in experience.

Oops. I mean a 6th sense.

[Josephkoudelka]

So all in all the awareness is quickly associated with the I and immediately becomes a thought in itself.

Yes. This is the problem that everyone shares on the planet. We superimpose the notion of self onto awareness itself. Removing the superimposition brings freedom. The interesting thing is that even when this is accomplished, thinking continues, except now a new thought arises, "I am free and limitless." or some variation of this expression.

For this to be a lasting experience, it is necessary that we see clearly that our direct experience of the present moment is always that of limitless awareness, or this knowing presence knowing only itself endlessly.

To facilitate this, it is also important to clearly see that a limited self is only supported by thoughts that claim "I am a limited self, confined to this body, separate from others." And also, verify that these claims are never verified in our direct experience of the present moment now.

This is why exploring questions like, "Does a thought know you. or do you know a thought?" and "Does perception know you, or do you know a perception?" is helpful at clarifying our actual stand as awareness.

Another avenue of approach is the recognition that I cannot be any thing that changes, up to and including thoughts.

Has there ever been a moment when you were not aware?

Does a thought actually know anything?

[NoKevin]

Has there ever been a moment when you were not aware?

No. A moment that awareness hasn't been would only be a thought.

Does a thought actually know anything?

No. It presumes to know based on its identification with a past and future that never really exist, but that it has identified with.

There is one more thought that I am having a problem with. Death. Pure consciousness. The true I is eternal. It is the only thing that knows no limits. There is no doubt that this body is inhabited by consciousness. By knowing. That thoughts, sense perception are all known due to the presence of this consciousness. I know these are nothing more than frustrating thoughts, but, after death, without presence of the body, does this deep unending awareness just remain simply that? Awareness, with no sense perception, no thought? I'm guessing all one can truly know is that awareness simply is and will always be.

[Josephkoudelka]

Has there ever been a moment when you were not aware?

No. A moment that awareness hasn't been would only be a thought..

Yes. In every moment, awareness is always present. To recognize that something is happening here, awareness of the present moment is already self evident.

Does a thought actually know anything?

No. It presumes to know based on its identification with a past and future that never really exist, but that it has identified with.

Correct, a thought doesn't know anything. However, the statement, "It presumes to know based on its identification with a past and future that never really exist, but that it has identified with", is just another thought.

Let me ask this a different way, does a thought have sentience?

We will come back to the issue regarding death... let's get clear about the nature of thought first.

[NoKevin]

No. Thought has no sentience.

[NoKevin]

Hi Joseph.

I just noticed an intense desire to control arising within me. I believe my entire notion to become 'enlightened' has come from a desire to control. This afternoon during my meditation session I started having a dream like experience and as soon as I became aware of the state and that I had no control over it I had this intense jolting out of the dream state and back to normal awareness.

There is a fear that keeps arising in my mind about not having control. The desire to have control is very strong and it seems to be intent on being able to control things. Forgive me for bringing up thoughts. The dream moment was incredibly powerful for me and the jolting out part which I believe arose from the fear of lack of control was very unpleasant. The reason I mention this is that it may be valuable to our process.

[Josephkoudelka]

There is a fear that keeps arising in my mind about not having control. The desire to have control is very strong and it seems to be intent on being able to control things. Forgive me for bringing up thoughts. The dream moment was incredibly powerful for me and the jolting out part which I believe arose from the fear of lack of control was very unpleasant. The reason I mention this is that it may be valuable to our process.

This desire to control is the very essence of "selfing." It is born out of fear. We attempt to control whatever we can due to the belief in a limited separate self. This contraction is consciousness has been going on as long as we can remember, all the way back to our earliest memories usually.

This why it is so important to open up to examining our direct experience in any situation. Opening up to direct experience isn't about controlling the experience, rather it is looking to see what is actually there, actually happening in the present moment. It is about going beyond thought... and just seeing, feeling what is really happening now.

We have never had control over any of it. I would bet that as you recognized this fear, this need to have control, that there was a desire to not experience that either. It is endless. Just to recognize it as beyond any control whatsoever is the best medicine.

Think about it, if you do not choose your own thoughts, where could the controller exist? If there is no self, outside of a self referential thought pattern(which you do not control), what is going to exercise control over the present moment?

Further, the present moment is only known instantaneously. There is no choice available to determine how the present moment unfolds. It is already a fact.

Looking deeply at this present moment, with the knowledge you have now, describe how the present moment could be controlled.

[Josephkoudelka]

Oh. Yes. Thoughts have no sentience. Thought knows nothing. But thought is known.

[NoKevin]

This is quite a lot to process. I am going through moments of acceptance and moments of complete denial and trying to escape what is. Fortunately now is one of acceptance, however earlier I was barely able to type due to the anxiety that thoughts were bringing up. Will follow up tomorrow after a little time to sit and be present with what I know. I can feel that my moments of presence are getting stronger. Unfortunately the resistances intensity is also increasing and I fluctuate between the 2. With what you have shown me, hopefully I can see resistance for what it truly is, just a thought.

[NoKevin]

Okay there is no control over the present moment. Not if you are directly now. You have no control whatsoever. Things are what they are.

[Josephkoudelka]

Okay there is no control over the present moment. Not if you are directly now. You have no control whatsoever. Things are what they are.

When has it ever not been now?